Top Law Schools

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I don't really like the question.

If someone is biglaw or bust, I really would never advise that they go to any of the second list of schools (absent a patent background). Obviously lots of people do land biglaw from those schools, but for me the risk is just too high if that's what you have your heart set on. Obviously, whether having your heart set on biglaw is a good idea is an entirely different question, and the answer is quite possibly no.

The right choice in this situation is almost alway imo to retake and reapply for more money in the T14. But if that's not going to happen and those are truly your goals, then I think the t14 is worth quite a bit lore.

existentialcrisis wrote:I don't really like the question.

If someone is biglaw or bust, I really would never advise that they go to any of the second list of schools (absent a patent background). Obviously lots of people do land biglaw from those schools, but for me the risk is just too high if that's what you have your heart set on. Obviously, whether having your heart set on biglaw is a good idea is an entirely different question, and the answer is quite possibly no.

The right choice in this situation is almost alway imo to retake and reapply for more money in the T14. But if that's not going to happen and those are truly your goals, then I think the t14 is worth quite a bit lore.

So what's an acceptable level of debt before you say "don't go to those schools at that price"?

In this case, the person would be in their late twenties when they graduated from school.

This is a pretty personal question, because some people are more debt averse than others and there are too many variables out there for this to be anything BUT a personal question. For instance, I have a friend who felt comfortable taking out nearly $300k in loans to go to a T14 because a parent was planning on selling a beachside property in a few years and giving some of that money to my friend.

So I'll tell you my personal preference, which is that I wouldn't take out more than $100k in loans to go to a lower t14. That's based in nothing other than my personal preference to not have a whole mortgage's worth of debt, but also my comfort with taking out a somewhat sizable loan to go to a better school. If someone came up to me and said they were picking a full ride at a T25 over any of the lower t14, that would be a perfectly defensible decision.

This is all a matter of your risk/debt tolerance, really.
Idk I'd say I might bite if T14 less than $75k more expensive? Depends of just how much you want Biglaw and wouldn't be fine with more modest outcomes, too.

About $75k more is my personal limit though between T14 and T20 full ride.

I'll be able to report back with a more clear picture within the month as I'll have exact figures. I really have no idea how much debt I'm comfortable with. Obviously I don't want to carry sticker debt, but it gets harder to asses once we're in the 100-150k range...

My parents are advising me to take a route which requires no debt of any kind. Then again, they also think the t-14 distinction is meaningless...

As for modest outcomes, I have zero interest in working for a small law firm or as public defender. I'd be fine with mid law, but I hear those jobs are even harder to find/get than big law. I'm also pretty flexible in where I practice. Doesn't have to be New York or D.C., really want want big or mid law (heck, in-house corporate counsel would be great eventually) in a 2 million plus metro area

No one should be biglaw or bust. It's not worth it guys.

somedeadman wrote:I'll be able to report back with a more clear picture within the month as I'll have exact figures. I really have no idea how much debt I'm comfortable with. Obviously I don't want to carry sticker debt, but it gets harder to asses once we're in the 100-150k range...

My parents are advising me to take a route which requires no debt of any kind. Then again, they also think the t-14 distinction is meaningless...

As for modest outcomes, I have zero interest in working for a small law firm or as public defender. I'd be fine with mid law, but I hear those jobs are even harder to find/get than big law.

Maybe it will help your decision if you look at you debt at graduation and then the monthly payment on a standard 10 year plan. Just FYI repayment on about $156,000 is $2,137. That's assuming 50,000 1st year with a simple increase of 3.1% on the Georgetown calculator.

Can you more easily comprehend how much money that is to repay? Just look at whatever numbers you come up with on a monthly payment basis and see what you would do with that much money now. I know 0Ls start calculating how quickly they will pay it off on their assumed biglaw salary, but I think that bypasses the step of understanding just how much money $150,000 plus interest is to repay over 120 months.

I'd be comfortable with 100k to 150k of debt for a lower T14 aiming for biglaw. One can reasonably expect to stay in biglaw and pay off that amount over 2-3 years, then transition to in-house if desired.

Npret wrote:

somedeadman wrote:I'll be able to report back with a more clear picture within the month as I'll have exact figures. I really have no idea how much debt I'm comfortable with. Obviously I don't want to carry sticker debt, but it gets harder to asses once we're in the 100-150k range...

My parents are advising me to take a route which requires no debt of any kind. Then again, they also think the t-14 distinction is meaningless...

As for modest outcomes, I have zero interest in working for a small law firm or as public defender. I'd be fine with mid law, but I hear those jobs are even harder to find/get than big law.

Maybe it will help your decision if you look at you debt at graduation and then the monthly payment on a standard 10 year plan. Just FYI repayment on about $156,000 is $2,137. That's assuming 50,000 1st year with a simple increase of 3.1% on the Georgetown calculator.

Can you more easily comprehend how much money that is to repay? Just look at whatever numbers you come up with on a monthly payment basis and see what you would do with that much money now. I know 0Ls start calculating how quickly they will pay it off on their assumed biglaw salary, but I think that bypasses the step of understanding just how much money $150,000 plus interest is to repay over 120 months.

I'll definitely play around with the Georgetown calculator (probably not before bed so I don't have an anxiety attack lmao).

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Is going to law school with the aim of getting big law a bad idea in general?

somedeadman wrote:Is going to law school with the aim of getting big law a bad idea in general?

Some say it's a bad idea because you might not get biglaw, while others say it's a bad idea even if you do get biglaw.

goldenbear2020 wrote:

somedeadman wrote:Is going to law school with the aim of getting big law a bad idea in general?

Some say it's a bad idea because you might not get biglaw, while others say it's a bad idea even if you do get biglaw.

Because of quality of life while working big law?

Remember it's the T-13 now, and possibly T-12 next year with Harvard pulling this gre crap

grades?? wrote:Remember it's the T-13 now, and possibly T-12 next year with Harvard pulling this gre crap

once Berkley hits 13 it just needs to change to the T12.

I do agree with the t13 when it comes to adding on debt. I am pretty debt averse, but I would probably be comfortable going up to $150k for most of the lower t14 because if I am median I still will likely get big law and can pay off a good chunk of that in a couple years if I wanted to get out of big law fast (which most people do).

Georgetown if you are median you very well may strike out at big law so I would not feel comfortable taking the same amount of debt there as I would say at Northwestern. But as everyone as said, it is really a personal decision on your comfort level

To me it all comes down to the options you'll have upon graduation. With a ton of debt at a T13 school you'll be forced into either Big Law or PI w/ LRAP in order to handle that debt efficiently. When I started thinking about going to law school I was T7 or bust regardless of the debt level (I am much more risk tolerant than most people though). However, now that I'm looking at near full scholarship at a T40 and WL at the T7s, I'm leaning more towards the T40 route even if I get into the T7. I don't know what I want to do yet but big law is at the bottom of my list, so I think it is more valuable to have all options available upon graduation. The one thing that weighs at the back of my mind is the connections I would make at a T7, however. Instead of thinking about it as high debt/low options vs. low debt/high options, I am now thinking about it according to the future value of the connections. Age, lifestyle, and short term goals/expectations obviously differ from person to person, but this is a glimpse into my thought process.

trebekismyhero wrote:I do agree with the t13 when it comes to adding on debt. I am pretty debt averse, but I would probably be comfortable going up to $150k for most of the lower t14 because if I am median I still will likely get big law and can pay off a good chunk of that in a couple years if I wanted to get out of big law fast (which most people do).

Georgetown if you are median you very well may strike out at big law so I would not feel comfortable taking the same amount of debt there as I would say at Northwestern. But as everyone as said, it is really a personal decision on your comfort level

My fear is getting the debt and still not getting big law. What then?

I have been contemplating retaking the LSAT. Would that be a good option? My stats are 169 and 3.68. I studied for the LSAT extensively (one year of prep, took all the practice tests, a lot of them multiple times). And I did score my prep test average.

Part of me feels like it wouldn't be worth it since I've studied a lot and got my average (plus I did retake it once, and my score went down). However, I was waitlisted at 8 schools (applied in October), and I really don't like my current options so...

Please don't quote!

I would retake if you have nothing to lose from it, and still have a take left. A few more points could make some of your scholarships a full scholly, a single point could get you an extra ten grand per year.

I will most likely be looking at somewhere between 100k and 130k debt at Repayment for a t-14 between 7-14. I find it hard to do this but ultimately think that for a 30 year career it is worth it. I would not be comfortable going over 150k.

baseballfan660 wrote:I would retake if you have nothing to lose from it, and still have a take left. A few more points could make some of your scholarships a full scholly, a single point could get you an extra ten grand per year.

Thanks for the advice! Definitely something to consider