Top Law Schools

Do some of the T14 have stronger ties to the Northwest than others? What about UCLA/USC?

Ties really matter for Seattle, and really, really matter for Portland. (Not sure about Boise, but I imagine it's like Portland but with an even smaller legal market. If your goal is to work in Boise, I'd consider going to the University of Idaho.)

Anyway, H, Y, or S will be the best. B might be slightly better than the rest because it has more graduates in the Pacific NW relative to the rest of the T14. But, again, the most important thing will be regional ties.

Ties are a must for the PNW. You can be more flexible if you have strong ties, but without them, HYS will naturally be the best. Followed by UW, for Seattle at least. A partner at a Seattle law firm told me that they now exclusively draw from UW, which is pretty telling.

UCLA/USC without ties would be pretty tough.

What constitutes “ties?” My wife is from Portland, and I grew up and completed my undergrad education in Idaho, but not really close to Boise. I have extended family in or near these three cities. Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms, or would would I basically need to be from Seattle? I think HSYCC is probably not realistic for me. I am also strongly considering a 1st tier school in the west that is not located in any of these three states because the COA would be very low. If I went there and had the grades, would PNW placement be possible?

Sawtooth wrote:What constitutes “ties?” My wife is from Portland, and I grew up and completed my undergrad education in Idaho, but not really close to Boise. I have extended family in or near these three cities. Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms, or would would I basically need to be from Seattle? I think HSYCC is probably not realistic for me. I am also strongly considering a 1st tier school in the west that is not located in any of these three states because the COA would be very low. If I went there and had the grades, would PNW placement be possible?

Possible? Sure. Likely? No.

If you're going to go to a non-14 law school, definitely go to one located in one of your target markets.

Sawtooth wrote:Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms?

Wife from PDX, UG in Idaho, Law school in, say, Cali (but not S or B), and a couple uncles in Seattle = no ties to Seattle whatsoever.

Wife from PDX with a lot of her family in the area is likely enough to constitute Portland ties, though.

guybourdin wrote:

Sawtooth wrote:Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms?

Wife from PDX, UG in Idaho, Law school in, say, Cali (but not S or B), and a couple uncles in Seattle = no ties to Seattle whatsoever.

Wife from PDX with a lot of her family in the area is likely enough to constitute Portland ties, though.

This. With your situation, if you want Seattle, go to UW. Otherwise it'll be a tough sell. I could see ways you could spin your situation to really show commitment in an interview, but I think it'd be tough to even get in the room without more significant ties.

FWIW I wouldn't focus too much on Seattle anyways. It seems like the only way you have a decent shot is to go to a school that's going to limit you to that area. Plus the legal market is relatively small, and the rain/overcast everyday affects people more than you'd think.

HamNewton wrote:

guybourdin wrote:

Sawtooth wrote:Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms?

Wife from PDX, UG in Idaho, Law school in, say, Cali (but not S or B), and a couple uncles in Seattle = no ties to Seattle whatsoever.

Wife from PDX with a lot of her family in the area is likely enough to constitute Portland ties, though.

This. With your situation, if you want Seattle, go to UW. Otherwise it'll be a tough sell. I could see ways you could spin your situation to really show commitment in an interview, but I think it'd be tough to even get in the room without more significant ties.

FWIW I wouldn't focus too much on Seattle anyways. It seems like the only way you have a decent shot is to go to a school that's going to limit you to that area. Plus the legal market is relatively small, and the rain/overcast everyday affects people more than you'd think.

Why are ties so important?

rpupkin wrote:Ties really matter for Seattle, and really, really matter for Portland. (Not sure about Boise, but I imagine it's like Portland but with an even smaller legal market. If your goal is to work in Boise, I'd consider going to the University of Idaho.)

Anyway, H, Y, or S will be the best. B might be slightly better than the rest because it has more graduates in the Pacific NW relative to the rest of the T14. But, again, the most important thing will be regional ties.

University of Utah is closer to Boise than Moscow is

klaudiaxo wrote:

HamNewton wrote:

guybourdin wrote:

Sawtooth wrote:Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms?

Wife from PDX, UG in Idaho, Law school in, say, Cali (but not S or B), and a couple uncles in Seattle = no ties to Seattle whatsoever.

Wife from PDX with a lot of her family in the area is likely enough to constitute Portland ties, though.

This. With your situation, if you want Seattle, go to UW. Otherwise it'll be a tough sell. I could see ways you could spin your situation to really show commitment in an interview, but I think it'd be tough to even get in the room without more significant ties.

FWIW I wouldn't focus too much on Seattle anyways. It seems like the only way you have a decent shot is to go to a school that's going to limit you to that area. Plus the legal market is relatively small, and the rain/overcast everyday affects people more than you'd think.

Why are ties so important?

They just are.

klaudiaxo wrote:

HamNewton wrote:

guybourdin wrote:

Sawtooth wrote:Would this sort of regional connection be enough for Seattle firms?

Wife from PDX, UG in Idaho, Law school in, say, Cali (but not S or B), and a couple uncles in Seattle = no ties to Seattle whatsoever.

Wife from PDX with a lot of her family in the area is likely enough to constitute Portland ties, though.

This. With your situation, if you want Seattle, go to UW. Otherwise it'll be a tough sell. I could see ways you could spin your situation to really show commitment in an interview, but I think it'd be tough to even get in the room without more significant ties.

FWIW I wouldn't focus too much on Seattle anyways. It seems like the only way you have a decent shot is to go to a school that's going to limit you to that area. Plus the legal market is relatively small, and the rain/overcast everyday affects people more than you'd think.

Why are ties so important?

Firms want the people they hire to stick around. Having ties to an area is more reassurance that you're not just stopping in for a few years and leaving. But the reality is that there's high attrition anyways, so yea "They just are" is a pretty accurate description.

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aaronbursar wrote:I'm agonizing over this as well - born and raised in PNW. If I've got HYS-ish numbers, should I still be applying to UW and seriously considering it? For my taste, the quality of life in the northwest is such that I really think I'd be happier there than anywhere else in the country.

Yes, for sure you should apply. UW isn't as generous with scholly money as some of the T14 schools (in my experience and some of my friends experiences) but you should still seriously consider attending UW.

Also, U CHI and NU do pretty well in the PNW (if your from the PNW, and especially with firms that have offices both in SEA and CHI).

aaronbursar wrote:I'm agonizing over this as well - born and raised in PNW. If I've got HYS-ish numbers, should I still be applying to UW and seriously considering it? For my taste, the quality of life in the northwest is such that I really think I'd be happier there than anywhere else in the country.

Because you were born and raised there, I think the need to attend UW is considerably less. If you're able to get in to HYS I wouldn't settle for UW. Even though UW places strongly in Seattle, you'll still have to do really well and place pretty high in your class; it's not like everyone at UW gets the job they want. HYS will give you a much larger margin of error and you'd be getting a degree from HYS, which carries more weight than UW anywhere.

I'm from Seattle but go to school in Southern California, and I actually got some pretty decent looks at Seattle firms; just didn't have strong enough grades to grab anything. If you've lived there, you have much more flexibility.

If you're not gonna go to a top school, then go to the strong regional where you want to be (like UW if you want to be in Seattle).

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zeglo wrote:Seems like Berkeley would be best for Seattle given its location and T14 status.

Its location 12 hours away from Seattle? I don't understand this. There might be more Berkeley grads in Seattle relative to other T14's, but even then I wouldn't go to a law school because its graduates might be in a particular location where they might be able to land me an interview where I might get a job. If you want Seattle, then I think it has to be UW, top grades at another T14, or blind luck.

star fox wrote:If you're not gonna go to a top school, then go to the strong regional where you want to be (like UW if you want to be in Seattle).

What about Portland? I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like UW really has THAT much of a reach outside of Seattle. As far as I can tell, only one attorney in Perkins Coie’s Portland office went to UW Law. The three Oregon schools also seem like they might only place 1-3 students each year in large firms or fed. clerkships.

Sawtooth wrote:

star fox wrote:If you're not gonna go to a top school, then go to the strong regional where you want to be (like UW if you want to be in Seattle).

What about Portland? I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like UW really has THAT much of a reach outside of Seattle. As far as I can tell, only one attorney in Perkins Coie’s Portland office went to UW Law. The three Oregon schools also seem like they might only place 1-3 students each year in large firms or fed. clerkships.

Yea man, HYS or like, NU-Cal-Mich (ties probably required) best UW out of Seattle. But, people with strong ties from lots of different schools come into the PNW markets each year.

Sawtooth wrote:

star fox wrote:If you're not gonna go to a top school, then go to the strong regional where you want to be (like UW if you want to be in Seattle).

What about Portland? I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like UW really has THAT much of a reach outside of Seattle. As far as I can tell, only one attorney in Perkins Coie’s Portland office went to UW Law. The three Oregon schools also seem like they might only place 1-3 students each year in large firms or fed. clerkships.

I'm wondering this too .. it seemed Oregon schools were not that good?

Sawtooth wrote:

star fox wrote:If you're not gonna go to a top school, then go to the strong regional where you want to be (like UW if you want to be in Seattle).

What about Portland? I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like UW really has THAT much of a reach outside of Seattle. As far as I can tell, only one attorney in Perkins Coie’s Portland office went to UW Law. The three Oregon schools also seem like they might only place 1-3 students each year in large firms or fed. clerkships.

Honestly, I'd look through the big firms websites and start doing a tally in your head of where most people went to school. That doesn't mean you're necessarily likely to get a job at one of those firms if you go to that school, but you know there's at least a connection. That being said, if you can get into a top school you should go there (most likely, depending on costs) because your odds of getting any biglaw job, regardless of city, will be higher and the degree is fairly portable.

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acr wrote:

zeglo wrote:Seems like Berkeley would be best for Seattle given its location and T14 status.

Its location 12 hours away from Seattle? I don't understand this. There might be more Berkeley grads in Seattle relative to other T14's, but even then I wouldn't go to a law school because its graduates might be in a particular location where they might be able to land me an interview where I might get a job. If you want Seattle, then I think it has to be UW, top grades at another T14, or blind luck.

I think the point is idea is to choose a place where the chances are slightly higher while recognizing that you'll probably end up somewhere else. If you absolutely have to be in Seattle/Portland/Boise then don't pay money for law school.