Top Law Schools

Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

I don't go to CLS and I'm not from Texas, but from what i understand, it will not be difficult at all to land Texas firms (assuming you're from there). Texas firms seem to love T14 students with ties.

Take this as you want it but a BB associate from TX told me it depends on the firms.

I'd be very surprised if you didn't get in at Harvard (maybe the easiest school to get Texas out of, btw). Did you apply to UT?

Columbia grads sometimes go to Texas, and I don't think it would hinder your chances. It might end up making more sense for you to go to Duke or UVA though (assuming no H) — you'll get better scholarships at those schools, and I think they have a little more direct connection to the Texas legal market.

If you have no intention of living in NYC, there's not a ton of reason to prefer Columbia over other T14 schools.

Columbia students do very well with 1L SAs in Texas and obviously with 2L and beyond, its even easier. It helps to be from the south and have reasons for wanting to be there, but its not obligatory, and there's a lot of flexibility with grades. If you want to maximize wealth and you were offered a Hamilton, going to CLS and then texas biglaw would make more sense than Harvard or Duke or another school. That being said, if you did not receive a big scholarship, it's difficult to justify the cost at CLS over the full ride you'll almost definitely receive at UVA, Duke, or other schools that probably do equally well. And if Harvard and Columbia were similarly priced, Harvard has the larger network and even more grade flexibility so it would make more sense.

kingpin101 wrote:If you have no intention of living in NYC, there's not a ton of reason to prefer Columbia over other T14 schools.

There are numerous markets outside NY where columbia students have a lower grade cutoff than many other T14 schools, which equates to preferential treatment in recruiting terms.

.

poptart123 wrote:At what price would CLS beat out a full or close to it at Texas for somebody from and targeting Texas and set on big law? Obviously this is relative, but just curious on y'all's thoughts.

Jbags went to CLS and I went to UT and with our powers combined I don't think we could really answer this. Also, the question ignores, like, Duke, so I'm not sure it's a great hypo to really waste much brain power on.

This is very, very rough, but: at a big firm in TX, the SMU/UH grads were probably roughly top 10%, the UT grads were probably about top 1/3, and the T14 grads were probably part of the unwashed median masses. Do with that what you must.

BigZuck wrote:

poptart123 wrote:At what price would CLS beat out a full or close to it at Texas for somebody from and targeting Texas and set on big law? Obviously this is relative, but just curious on y'all's thoughts.

Jbags went to CLS and I went to UT and with our powers combined I don't think we could really answer this. Also, the question ignores, like, Duke, so I'm not sure it's a great hypo to really waste much brain power on.

This is very, very rough, but: at a big firm in TX, the SMU/UH grads were probably roughly top 10%, the UT grads were probably about top 1/3, and the T14 grads were probably part of the unwashed median masses. Do with that what you must.

Yea I have no idea. Depends on the total debt we're discussing, what your other long-term goals are, and what your other options would be.

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Agreed. There is an 100% chance (barring independent wealth) of taking on a crippling amount of debt.

It seems like Duke or UVA with $$$ is the obvious way to minimize risk here.

existentialcrisis wrote:I don't go to CLS and I'm not from Texas, but from what i understand, it will not be difficult at all to land Texas firms (assuming you're from there). Texas firms seem to love T14 students with ties.

I'm not from TX but I have a lot of family that live around Houston and Dallas so I visit often. It is definitely like a second home to me. Do you think that would that be enough for TX biglaw to conclude that I have ties to the state?

jbagelboy wrote:Columbia students do very well with 1L SAs in Texas and obviously with 2L and beyond, its even easier. It helps to be from the south and have reasons for wanting to be there, but its not obligatory, and there's a lot of flexibility with grades. If you want to maximize wealth and you were offered a Hamilton, going to CLS and then texas biglaw would make more sense than Harvard or Duke or another school. That being said, if you did not receive a big scholarship, it's difficult to justify the cost at CLS over the full ride you'll almost definitely receive at UVA, Duke, or other schools that probably do equally well. And if Harvard and Columbia were similarly priced, Harvard has the larger network and even more grade flexibility so it would make more sense.

I actually never knew that firms varied their grade cutoffs by geographic location. Is the flexibility enough to justify going to, say, CLS with a butler,(think I have a decent chance of getting one), over more $$$ at Duke? Applied to UVA but, in the case I'm admitted, there's no way in hell I'm getting a DiIllard with my GPA

Also I'm interested in jobs,(grades allowing), at national biglaw branch offices in Texas. Does that change the decision making process at all?

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

You might think you want this, but you really don't. An added chance at Big law is not worth $300k in debt. It's unlikely you would last long enough at a large firm to make after taxes the $300k+interest anyway. Taking on debt is the biggest risk a young person can take with their lives.

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

You might think you want this, but you really don't. An added chance at Big law is not worth $300k in debt. It's unlikely you would last long enough at a large firm to make after taxes the $300k+interest anyway. Taking on debt is the biggest risk a young person can take with their lives.

Everyone has their own level risk tolerance and own goals in life. For what it's worth, I'm ex-biglaw in-house with fully paid off loans, so I've been down the journey, although my debt level wasn't quite so bad.

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

You might think you want this, but you really don't. An added chance at Big law is not worth $300k in debt. It's unlikely you would last long enough at a large firm to make after taxes the $300k+interest anyway. Taking on debt is the biggest risk a young person can take with their lives.

Everyone has their own level risk tolerance and own goals in life. For what it's worth, I'm ex-biglaw in-house with fully paid off loans, so I've been down the journey, although my debt level wasn't quite so bad.

What was your debt, if you don't mind me asking?

Thelaw23 wrote:

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

You might think you want this, but you really don't. An added chance at Big law is not worth $300k in debt. It's unlikely you would last long enough at a large firm to make after taxes the $300k+interest anyway. Taking on debt is the biggest risk a young person can take with their lives.

Everyone has their own level risk tolerance and own goals in life. For what it's worth, I'm ex-biglaw in-house with fully paid off loans, so I've been down the journey, although my debt level wasn't quite so bad.

What was your debt, if you don't mind me asking?

Low 6 figures.

derekne wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:Columbia students do very well with 1L SAs in Texas and obviously with 2L and beyond, its even easier. It helps to be from the south and have reasons for wanting to be there, but its not obligatory, and there's a lot of flexibility with grades. If you want to maximize wealth and you were offered a Hamilton, going to CLS and then texas biglaw would make more sense than Harvard or Duke or another school. That being said, if you did not receive a big scholarship, it's difficult to justify the cost at CLS over the full ride you'll almost definitely receive at UVA, Duke, or other schools that probably do equally well. And if Harvard and Columbia were similarly priced, Harvard has the larger network and even more grade flexibility so it would make more sense.

I actually never knew that firms varied their grade cutoffs by geographic location. Is the flexibility enough to justify going to, say, CLS with a butler,(think I have a decent chance of getting one), over more $$$ at Duke? Applied to UVA but, in the case I'm admitted, there's no way in hell I'm getting a DiIllard with my GPA

Why are you so sure you don't have a shot at a Dillard? You have a crazy good LSAT score, after all.

jbagelboy wrote:

kingpin101 wrote:If you have no intention of living in NYC, there's not a ton of reason to prefer Columbia over other T14 schools.

There are numerous markets outside NY where columbia students have a lower grade cutoff than many other T14 schools, which equates to preferential treatment in recruiting terms.

Is CA one of these markets?

nealric wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

nealric wrote:

derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?

If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.

I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.

Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.

Depends on the small firm. You stand a much better chance of making partner at a small firm. What you make as a small firm partner will depend on the firm and you as a lawyer. I can tell you that I know small firm partners who make north of $1 million per year.

Looking at the numbers, I see around 10% of Texas grads under the unemployed category. I see around 2.5% of Columbia grads. That 7.5% isn't nearly enough of a difference for me to take on $300,000 more in debt.

Guys we are talking about 3.77, 178, as fun as hypotheticals are Texas is out of the picture here.

please come back when you have your options and where you're getting $ (and how much). Otherwise you're just going to see hypos

out of curiosity, why does someone who wants ultimately to end up in Texas want to go to NYC for the next three years?