Top Law Schools

Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

According to MyLSN, you got just about what should be expected (http://mylsn.info/s4s7nu/), and I made this chart as if you submitted between September and October.

If you could boost that LSAT score a few points, that would open even more doors. With a 172-173 you could go to Harvard, or Columbia with twice as much money. If you don't want to retake the LSAT though, I think this is pretty expected for Columbia. They're LSAT heavy.

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Out of curiosity, what type of URM are you?

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

.

HYPSM wrote:"OP here. I'm Chinese."

Hehe.

That explains it. URM's with your grades and lsat are usually able to get into at least one of HYS. While you may be racial minority, you're not considered to be an under represented minority insofar as law school admissions is concerned, so it follows that you wouldn't get the URM bump.

And to be frank, being of East-Asian descent might actually hurt your chances at T14, as Asians are probably over-represented in T14 when compared to the general population.

Nachoo2019 wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

I had the same reaction Nacho. I was like "I am an URM with a similar GPA and even if I get a 170 I still won't get into H!??" Fuckkkkkk.

If you want H, just sit out and retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. If it is your dream, what is another year? Like I always say, Barack Obama applied 2 cycles and finally got H. He also didn't finish law school until he was 30!

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Nachoo2019 wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

I had the same reaction Nacho. I was like "I am an URM with a similar GPA and even if I get a 170 I still won't get into H!??" Fuckkkkkk.

If you want H, just sit out and retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. If it is your dream, what is another year? Like I always say, Barack Obama applied 2 cycles and finally got H. He also didn't finish law school until he was 30!

He did? Where did you learn that?

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Nachoo2019 wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

I had the same reaction Nacho. I was like "I am an URM with a similar GPA and even if I get a 170 I still won't get into H!??" Fuckkkkkk.

If you want H, just sit out and retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. If it is your dream, what is another year? Like I always say, Barack Obama applied 2 cycles and finally got H. He also didn't finish law school until he was 30!

He did? Where did you learn that?

Well him not finishing law school until he was 30 is out there. I think I found that out from his book "Dreams From My Father"

Idk where I read he applied 2 cycles. I might be mistaken about that actually or heard it from a non-credible source. But he was definitely 27 when he started law school.

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Nachoo2019 wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

I had the same reaction Nacho. I was like "I am an URM with a similar GPA and even if I get a 170 I still won't get into H!??" Fuckkkkkk.

If you want H, just sit out and retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. If it is your dream, what is another year? Like I always say, Barack Obama applied 2 cycles and finally got H. He also didn't finish law school until he was 30!

He did? Where did you learn that?

Well him not finishing law school until he was 30 is out there. I think I found that out from his book "Dreams From My Father"

Idk where I read he applied 2 cycles. I might be mistaken about that actually or heard it from a non-credible source. But he was definitely 27 when he started law school.

Haha, I asked because I was curious, not because I didn't believe you. I know that he definitely started law school when he was 27. Who knows, he may have applied 2 cycles, I know that Michelle was first waitlisted at Harvard and then one of her prof's at Princeton wrote another letter to the admissions committee and she was eventually admitted off of the waitlist.

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

Barack O'Drama wrote:

Nachoo2019 wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:Hey everyone,

So I have a 170 and a 3.86 gpa and I am an URM with decent softs and great letters of recs. I applied last cycle mid December and I got into Columbia, Berkley and Penn, I got waitlisted at Chicago, Harvard, and Yale, and I didn't apply to Stanford or NYU.

I have a $50,000 scolly for Columbia and I have deferred for a year however I am thinking of canceling my deferral and reapplying for the next cycle. I really really wanted to get into Harvard and I would rather attend Yale, Chicago, or Stanford (it was a dumb reason why I didn't apply here the first time) rather than Columbia.

The only thing that I can add to my application is a few awards I got from my school (graduating senior of the year etc) and a couple internships with the red cross and the international refugee committee.

1) How much would applying earlier with a more complete and refined application really impact my chances?
2) Will Columbia hate me for cancelling the deferment and reapplying (will they not want to even look at my application anymore)?

Thanks in advance

Something here does not add up. Are you sure you are a URM? Do you have any major red flags in your C&F portion of the app? A 170/3.86 should have you in at HS with a great shot at Y and then a TON of money In the rest of the T14.

Your cycle looked exactly like what a non-URM cycle would look like.

I had the same reaction Nacho. I was like "I am an URM with a similar GPA and even if I get a 170 I still won't get into H!??" Fuckkkkkk.

If you want H, just sit out and retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. If it is your dream, what is another year? Like I always say, Barack Obama applied 2 cycles and finally got H. He also didn't finish law school until he was 30!

He did? Where did you learn that?

Well him not finishing law school until he was 30 is out there. I think I found that out from his book "Dreams From My Father"

Idk where I read he applied 2 cycles. I might be mistaken about that actually or heard it from a non-credible source. But he was definitely 27 when he started law school.

Haha, I asked because I was curious, not because I didn't believe you. I know that he definitely started law school when he was 27. Who knows, he may have applied 2 cycles, I know that Michelle was first waitlisted at Harvard and then one of her prof's at Princeton wrote another letter to the admissions committee and she was eventually admitted off of the waitlist.

Yeah, I heard that about Michelle! She is great....Princeton to Harvard.... Good stuff

Would Ted Cruz be considered a URM? Lol

PrezRand wrote:Would Ted Cruz be considered a URM? Lol

He's Cuban, so I don't think so.

That offer from Columbia is IMO justifiable if you are OK working in NY. The wrinkle that puts this beyond the scope where I can help is the deferral dynamic. Might want to pose that issue to spivey

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

PrezRand wrote:Would Ted Cruz be considered a URM? Lol

He's Cuban, so I don't think so.

Are people from Central America not considered URMs?

PrezRand wrote:

Barack Obama 2.0 wrote:

PrezRand wrote:Would Ted Cruz be considered a URM? Lol

He's Cuban, so I don't think so.

Are people from Central America not considered URMs?

To my knowledge no. If you are hispanic, I believe you must be Mexican-American to be considered a URM.

HYPSM wrote:"OP here. I'm Chinese."

Hehe.

haha ok so I just looked it up a little bit and I am not sure if I qualify as URM, so I was born in Saudi Arabia and I am first generation immigrant of Palestinian decent. I checked Asian on the demographics questions. I hope that clears things up.

what do you have against Columbia, vis a vis the other schools listed?

jbagelboy wrote:what do you have against Columbia, vis a vis the other schools listed?

I have something against NYC to be honest, I don't want to live/work there.

oalkhawaja wrote:

HYPSM wrote:"OP here. I'm Chinese."

Hehe.

haha ok so I just looked it up a little bit and I am not sure if I qualify as URM, so I was born in Saudi Arabia and I am first generation immigrant of Palestinian decent. I checked Asian on the demographics questions. I hope that clears things up.

You're not a URM, unfortunately.

oalkhawaja wrote:

HYPSM wrote:"OP here. I'm Chinese."

Hehe.

haha ok so I just looked it up a little bit and I am not sure if I qualify as URM, so I was born in Saudi Arabia and I am first generation immigrant of Palestinian decent. I checked Asian on the demographics questions. I hope that clears things up.

Um, no offense, but what on Earth made you think you were URM then? You literally said you checked "Asian."

HYPSM wrote:

oalkhawaja wrote:

HYPSM wrote:"OP here. I'm Chinese."

Hehe.

haha ok so I just looked it up a little bit and I am not sure if I qualify as URM, so I was born in Saudi Arabia and I am first generation immigrant of Palestinian decent. I checked Asian on the demographics questions. I hope that clears things up.

Um, no offense, but what on Earth made you think you were URM then? You literally said you checked "Asian."

He probably thought that since he was a racial minority that he was an under represented minority. However, not all racial minorities are under represented in law school. In fact asians are over represented.

Yea honestly $50k from CLS is a good outcome with your numbers. A lot of people are waitlisted with 170. You aren't getting a solid chance at HLS without a 3 pt improvement on your LSAT. You're also below both medians at S.

jbagelboy wrote:Yea honestly $50k from CLS is a good outcome with your numbers. A lot of people are waitlisted with 170. You aren't getting a solid chance at HLS without a 3 pt improvement on your LSAT. You're also below both medians at S.

I'm just going to come back in here and say that if taking your medicine @ 170 w/ 50k from Columbia is a pretty damn good result. Remember that it might be more competitive next year, and it also seems you're chasing prestige (which you won't get more of w/o a 172) when you already have it?

Again, if willing to work in NY (and maybe even if not) you should just take this