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Yeezus Wept wrote:Why don't you just, ya know, retake in October for a 170+ and then reapply. You probably will get some scholarship money, and fewer loans is always better. If you do end up deciding you just want to do PAYE, you will probably get into one of CCN which will give you better prospects. I know you probably don't want to hear it, but retaking is TCR here.

bokampers wrote:I need some opinions plz.

Applied extremely late this cycle with a 3.4/3.5 and a 165/166 and was waitlisted at almost every t14 I applied to. Retook the LSAT in June and bumped my score up to the 168/169 range.

I just randomly got into one of M/P/V/D off of the waitlist after updating them. The school I got into has essentially been my dream/target school due to regional concerns for a few years now. Here's the kicker - they don't have any merit aid for me.

So now I'm faced with a conflict. Do I just suck it up and enjoy the PAYE train post-grad ? or do I sit out another year and reapply with hopes of $$$?

If anything was guaranteed I'd obviously sit out, but I fear that the school may get salty with me and not readmit me next cycle, much less with a scholarship. I expressed alot of interest in attending this cycle, and now I'm concerned that if I don't attend I'll be burning that bridge.

And, even if I DO get a generous scholly (lets say like 120k somehow), my debt at graduation would still be around 200-220k when you factor in my UG loans (30-40k). I may very well end up on PAYE either way...wouldn't that make all this scholly talk kinda moot?

Opinions? Experiences?

ETA: LSAT takes are maxed out until 06/17. Rather not wait 2+ cycles

acr wrote: To me, paying sticker for any of those schools would be insane. These fora are littered with miserable graduates because of their big law jobs. If you're not absolutely sure that you can handle the big law grind, then I don't think it's wise for you to lock yourself into a career path that you might hate just to service debt. If you understand--and if you're comfortable--with what over $300,000 in debt and big law would entail, then go for it, but it's not a choice that I personally would be comfortable making. I know it's your dream school, but what will that shiny M/P/V/D degree be worth to you when you're shoveling shit to your lenders for 20 years?

Not a direct answer, I know, but that's just my opinion.

If your goal is PI or PSLF jobs, then it's a different story.

lymenheimer wrote:Kinda depends on the school if you're deadset on going to law school without retaking. V/P you probably won't get money from next cycle (I'm assuming you're not URM), but M/D might give a small scholly...Nothing near 120k, though.

bokampers wrote:

lymenheimer wrote:Kinda depends on the school if you're deadset on going to law school without retaking. V/P you probably won't get money from next cycle (I'm assuming you're not URM), but M/D might give a small scholly...Nothing near 120k, though.

I actually am URM, which may change the playing field. I just don't like banking on that.

Also, you don't think bailing on a WL acceptance will prohibit me from getting readmitted next cycle?

bokampers wrote:

Yeezus Wept wrote:Why don't you just, ya know, retake in October for a 170+ and then reapply. You probably will get some scholarship money, and fewer loans is always better. If you do end up deciding you just want to do PAYE, you will probably get into one of CCN which will give you better prospects. I know you probably don't want to hear it, but retaking is TCR here.

I wish that were an option but I'm maxed out until June 2017, which would mean two additional cycles off with no guarantee of anything.

ponderingmeerkat wrote:

bokampers wrote:

Yeezus Wept wrote:Why don't you just, ya know, retake in October for a 170+ and then reapply. You probably will get some scholarship money, and fewer loans is always better. If you do end up deciding you just want to do PAYE, you will probably get into one of CCN which will give you better prospects. I know you probably don't want to hear it, but retaking is TCR here.

I wish that were an option but I'm maxed out until June 2017, which would mean two additional cycles off with no guarantee of anything.

I'm personal friends with half a dozen MVPD types who went at or near sticker and they ALL, without exception, are not happy with their financial outcomes. They fully expect to live a life of indentured servitude for the next 5-10 years with little to no chance of home ownership, employment flexibility or ability to start a family.

Every single one would say something along the lines of "you can't spend prestige". So, tread cautiously.

abl wrote:What sort of law do you want to practice, and how excited do you feel about that? What are your alternative careers and how excited about them are you? How much do you need luxury and/or how content are you to pack a lunch, live in a nice (but not the nicest) apartment, etc? Are you planning on ending up in a super-expensive market (like NY/SF) or somewhere more affordable (like Chicago or a non-major market)? Do you have any family members who might need financial help from you in the next 10 years? Similarly, do you have any family members who might be able to financially help you out in the next 10 years if needed?

These are all relevant questions. It is not always or necessarily going to be a bad decision to go to M/P/V/D at sticker. Depending on your goals, debt tolerance, alternatives, etc, M/P/V/D at sticker can be a great option. It's pretty impossible for anyone here to tell you whether this would be a mistake or not for you without understanding the above (and other) relevant factors.

Jmart082 wrote:If forced to take on this debt load, I'd take Penn with UVA a close second.

bokampers wrote:

abl wrote:What sort of law do you want to practice, and how excited do you feel about that? What are your alternative careers and how excited about them are you? How much do you need luxury and/or how content are you to pack a lunch, live in a nice (but not the nicest) apartment, etc? Are you planning on ending up in a super-expensive market (like NY/SF) or somewhere more affordable (like Chicago or a non-major market)? Do you have any family members who might need financial help from you in the next 10 years? Similarly, do you have any family members who might be able to financially help you out in the next 10 years if needed?

These are all relevant questions. It is not always or necessarily going to be a bad decision to go to M/P/V/D at sticker. Depending on your goals, debt tolerance, alternatives, etc, M/P/V/D at sticker can be a great option. It's pretty impossible for anyone here to tell you whether this would be a mistake or not for you without understanding the above (and other) relevant factors.

Excellent points.

I would ideally like to focus my career on litigation. If I'm fortunate enough to snag a federal clerkship, I'd gladly pursue that. I would then hope to do a 3-5 year stint in biglaw (hoping for a secondary market) in order to build savings/down-payment and gain some experience. Longterm, the dream is to end up government work - preferably as an AUSA. I know these are ambitious goals. If the alternative is NYC biglaw, I'd be okay with that for a short time but would certainty be itching to ditch New York.

I don't expect to need to help out family, God-willing. Parents are still pretty young and my siblings are on the right track for themselves. I'm in a serious relationship but not married nor do I have kids (yet). I also grew up/still am fairly poor. I expect to be over-the-moon happy so long as I have financial stability and some savings. I won't need an ultra-lux apartment or a BMW M3 to keep me satisfied. I would like to own a nice house in the suburbs within the next 10 years or so, though.

My assumption is that I'd be fine either way. That sticker debt is psychologically nasty but PAYE makes it totally serviceable and I doubt it'd ruin my life. However, I can't help but wonder if, as a URM with a 3.5/169-ish, I'd be selling myself short by not reapplying nice and early next cycle.

Dcc617 wrote:Just wait and reapply. You'll probably get more money.

bokampers wrote:M/P/V/D came in clutch with a last minute scholarship offer y'all. I deposited. This was a happy ending.

bokampers wrote:M/P/V/D came in clutch with a last minute scholarship offer y'all. I deposited. This was a happy ending.