Top Law Schools

Pace (COA = $69k + $19k scholarship), Quinnipiac (COA= $67k, no scholarship) or Hofstra (COA = $79k, no scholarship)...I'm interested in eventually working/practicing in NYC but most familiar with Pace and the area nearby, could move back in with my parents into the house I grew up in, about 15 min drive away. Hofstra is highest ranked and appears to have best employment opportunities but also most expensive.

Which school is best in this scenario? Do rankings in this instance matter? Hoping to end up with a good paying job after graduating. I Will receive a limited amount of financial help from family; LSAT attempts have been maxed out, cannot retake for another 2 ad. cycles.

A few questions:

1. LSAT/GPA?
2. What type of law do you want to practice?
3. What constitutes a "good paying" job for you?

But short answer: none of the above. Even Pace will end up putting you over $150k in debt (I'm assuming you gave yearly costs, because your notes aren't clear), and that's unacceptable for schools of this caliber when you can wait, retake the LSAT, and at least just end up unemployed instead of unemployed and in six figures of debt.

Dude, I would not go near those schools with full tuition, let alone paying anything out of pocket.

Just look at employment prospects of these schools, not too great. I guess it does depend on the type of law you wish to practice, but no matter what type I can't imagine there not being a better school. Also, even if one were to consider any of these schools, I wouldn't do so without a great plan and full scholarship. Chances are networking may be able to get you the job you want, but if you're interested in big law TTTs are not the way to go.

none of those school will give you a high paying job immediately. its going to take several years post grad of hustle to be around 80K (start around 60Kish) probably and probably 10+ years to crack 6 figs. If you still decide to go to law school, go to the school with the best LST employment scores - the COA is all close enough in your case it's not really worth saving 10K on a lifetime investment.

If you're not getting full rides at these schools, you need to retake the LSAT. Even with full rides to these schools, you'll have much better options to choose from.

NO

I only see two good options:
(1) sit out two cycles, save money, retake and study much harder this time
(2) re-consider your options and pursue a different career

I know it sounds harsh, but the economic realities are such that going to either of these schools for three years will actually hurt your lifetime earning potential (considering the opportunity costs and limited employment prospects). You will almost certainly regret going to these schools, especially with how much debt you will have and likely starting salary.

flyingsoccer wrote:Pace (COA = $69k + $19k scholarship), Quinnipiac (COA= $67k, no scholarship) or Hofstra (COA = $79k, no scholarship)...I'm interested in eventually working/practicing in NYC but most familiar with Pace and the area nearby, could move back in with my parents into the house I grew up in, about 15 min drive away. Hofstra is highest ranked and appears to have best employment opportunities but also most expensive.

Which school is best in this scenario? Do rankings in this instance matter? Hoping to end up with a good paying job after graduating. I Will receive a limited amount of financial help from family; LSAT attempts have been maxed out, cannot retake for another 2 ad. cycles.

I would go with Pace and move back into your house. 50k in debt isn't too bad

john1990 wrote:

flyingsoccer wrote:Pace (COA = $69k + $19k scholarship), Quinnipiac (COA= $67k, no scholarship) or Hofstra (COA = $79k, no scholarship)...I'm interested in eventually working/practicing in NYC but most familiar with Pace and the area nearby, could move back in with my parents into the house I grew up in, about 15 min drive away. Hofstra is highest ranked and appears to have best employment opportunities but also most expensive.

Which school is best in this scenario? Do rankings in this instance matter? Hoping to end up with a good paying job after graduating. I Will receive a limited amount of financial help from family; LSAT attempts have been maxed out, cannot retake for another 2 ad. cycles.

I would go with Pace and move back into your house. 50k in debt isn't too bad

Its 50k per year. Any of these choices are suicide for your career. I know a person who finished top 10% at Hofstra and can't find a single job except for paralegal gigs- which wouldn't even require a jd.

john1990 wrote:

flyingsoccer wrote:Pace (COA = $69k + $19k scholarship), Quinnipiac (COA= $67k, no scholarship) or Hofstra (COA = $79k, no scholarship)...I'm interested in eventually working/practicing in NYC but most familiar with Pace and the area nearby, could move back in with my parents into the house I grew up in, about 15 min drive away. Hofstra is highest ranked and appears to have best employment opportunities but also most expensive.

Which school is best in this scenario? Do rankings in this instance matter? Hoping to end up with a good paying job after graduating. I Will receive a limited amount of financial help from family; LSAT attempts have been maxed out, cannot retake for another 2 ad. cycles.

I would go with Pace and move back into your house. 50k in debt isn't too bad

The COA is per year. Hofstra is >50k per year. Unless OP has some kind of webcam porn or reality show contract, how is his cost of living going to be negative seventy-one thousand dollars over three years (50k x 3 = $150,000 tuition - $71,000 cost of living = $79,000 debt). If this were the case I'd urge OP to avoid law school because a pornstar or reality tv star should be saving money during their prime years, and not taking on debt. OP nobody is going to pay to watch you do your laundry naked when you're 80.

The problem with these schools is not just ranking, but the geographic economy. Most clients in this areas are a short drive from NYC, and generally use NYC firms. The local law firms in these areas that are successful have been passed down generation to generation, but aren't positioned to hire new lawyers. A few people each year get good outcomes, but they're a combination of extremely smart, personable and lucky. They're lottery ticket odds for a payout that is a middle class life for working extremely hard for decades.

TIL Quinnipiac Pace and Hofstra have law schools.

Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

cavalier1138 wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

Because 2 years studying really hard for the LSAT is the best career move any lawyer can make. I am assuming this person has about a 3.0 and a 152. A 3.0 and a 165 puts you in an entirely different group of law schools, with a significantly better chance of getting a good paying job, or at a minimum saves you 10s of thousands of dollars at the same schools you are applying.

joeyc328 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

Because 2 years studying really hard for the LSAT is the best career move any lawyer can make.

Can you please give your credentials? How long have you been practicing law? Thanks

bmathers wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

Because 2 years studying really hard for the LSAT is the best career move any lawyer can make.

Can you please give your credentials? How long have you been practicing law? Thanks

Attorney practicing for 3 years. Not sure what that has to do with math. Let's take Hofstra for example 5% of their graduates end up in a job that pays well (what OP wants) http://abovethelaw.com/schools/hofstra- ... ol-of-law/

Now if you study for 2 years and improve your score by 10-15 points you can get into a school like Fordam (if OP wants to stay in New York) and increase your chance at a good paying job by 7 times and cut your unemployment risk by almost half. I would venture to say 2 years and studying is worth a 7x greater chance at a "good paying job".

joeyc328 wrote:

bmathers wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

Because 2 years studying really hard for the LSAT is the best career move any lawyer can make.

Can you please give your credentials? How long have you been practicing law? Thanks

Attorney practicing for 3 years. Not sure what that has to do with math. Let's take Hofstra for example 5% of their graduates end up in a job that pays well (what OP wants) http://abovethelaw.com/schools/hofstra- ... ol-of-law/

Now if you study for 2 years and improve your score by 10-15 points you can get into a school like Fordam (if OP wants to stay in New York) and increase your chance at a good paying job by 7 times and cut your unemployment risk by almost half. I would venture to say 2 years and studying is worth a 7x greater chance at a "good paying job".

First - I agree that attending Pace, Quinipiac and/or Hofstra, or as I call it MAD Law, is a terrible idea generally and particularly in this case. But I have to disagree with you about Fordham providing a "7 times" better outcome than these schools. I think you're overselling Fordham a bit - to be honest.

Finally - Op, out of curiosity, what do you consider a "good paying job?"

reasonable_man wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:

bmathers wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

joeyc328 wrote:Wait 2 years. Would you rather be a lawyer for 38 years or have a 50% chance of being a low paid lawyer for 40 years?

I feel like I've seen you post this weird question before. What's your general intent behind it?

Because 2 years studying really hard for the LSAT is the best career move any lawyer can make.

Can you please give your credentials? How long have you been practicing law? Thanks

Attorney practicing for 3 years. Not sure what that has to do with math. Let's take Hofstra for example 5% of their graduates end up in a job that pays well (what OP wants) http://abovethelaw.com/schools/hofstra- ... ol-of-law/

Now if you study for 2 years and improve your score by 10-15 points you can get into a school like Fordam (if OP wants to stay in New York) and increase your chance at a good paying job by 7 times and cut your unemployment risk by almost half. I would venture to say 2 years and studying is worth a 7x greater chance at a "good paying job".

First - I agree that attending Pace, Quinipiac and/or Hofstra, or as I call it MAD Law, is a terrible idea generally and particularly in this case. But I have to disagree with you about Fordham providing a "7 times" better outcome than these schools. I think you're overselling Fordham a bit - to be honest.

Finally - Op, out of curiosity, what do you consider a "good paying job?"

Actually, Joeyc here is dead on. According to LST, Hofstra places 5.3% into big law. Fordham places 33.7%. Therefore, the ratio is actually 6.35 times better from Hofstra to Fordham. So pretty dead on to the 7 times he pointed to earlier. So if the metric is being able to get a "good paying job", one where OP can pay off the debt, that would naturally point to a biglaw job. Therefore, Fordham does provide almost exactly 7 times better of an outcome than Hofstra (and I want to be clear, Fordham's stats also suck. I would advise no-one to go to Fordham unless it is for free).

OP the upshot here is in no possible world should you go to any of these three schools.

Source:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/fordham/2015/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hofstra/2015/

I cannot retake the LSAT until June 2017 which, I'm told, means I cannot enter law school for another two years. I'm aware that these aren't "great" schools/options but I'm in my late twenties, I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment. I consider a decent starting salary for the caliber of school I'm able to attend to be about $75-90k. Thanks.

flyingsoccer wrote:I cannot retake the LSAT until June 2017 which, I'm told, means I cannot enter law school for another two years. I'm aware that these aren't "great" schools/options but I'm in my late twenties, I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment. I consider a decent starting salary for the caliber of school I'm able to attend to be about $75-90k. Thanks.

A starting salary of $75k to 90k for any of these schools would put you at the top of the mark. You would be one of their success stories - for sure and lumped in with the few other students that did better than you and got a biglaw placement. Attending one of these schools expecting to earn that kind of salary to start is foolish. A good number of students from these schools will earn between $45K to 60K to start and increase very slowly (which is sadly better than the unemployed students - there will be a good number of those too). I'm not saying you can't land a job making $75k to 90k, I'm just saying that its going to be tough to do.

flyingsoccer wrote: I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment.

67% chance of starting your career.

flyingsoccer wrote:I cannot retake the LSAT until June 2017 which, I'm told, means I cannot enter law school for another two years. I'm aware that these aren't "great" schools/options but I'm in my late twenties, I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment. I consider a decent starting salary for the caliber of school I'm able to attend to be about $75-90k. Thanks.

Your odds of getting this outcome are less than 10%, and you can't just walk away like at an arcade. That debt will be following you for at least 30 years.

lulz for op thinking any of these schools will get him a 75k-90k job at graduation. OP hear me out: IF, and its a big IF, that you are lucky enough to get a legal job out of any of these choices, it will be for no more than 45k a year. Good luck paying back 300k in loans at 45k a year. lulz.

flyingsoccer wrote:I cannot retake the LSAT until June 2017 which, I'm told, means I cannot enter law school for another two years. I'm aware that these aren't "great" schools/options but I'm in my late twenties, I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment. I consider a decent starting salary for the caliber of school I'm able to attend to be about $75-90k. Thanks.

the best school based on LST emplyoment scores then. Hofstra? Going to be an uphill battle. I graduated from a school like this and most of my classmates made about $50k after graduation and took about 3 years to get to the 75k/90K mark (and not all are there). It requires lots and lots of hustle/networking/competitive edges like a second language, etc.

HonestAdvice wrote:

flyingsoccer wrote:I cannot retake the LSAT until June 2017 which, I'm told, means I cannot enter law school for another two years. I'm aware that these aren't "great" schools/options but I'm in my late twenties, I'm eager to get the ball rolling and start my career, currently work in a very different industry. I'm open about what law I'd like to practice at the moment. I consider a decent starting salary for the caliber of school I'm able to attend to be about $75-90k. Thanks.

Your odds of getting this outcome are less than 10%, and you can't just walk away like at an arcade. That debt will be following you for at least 30 years.

because PAYE, the debt only looms for 20 years max. and it's only 10% of income above poverty limit (roughly salary - 20K * 10%), so it's not that big of risk.