Top Law Schools

I want to eventually end up in Big Law. I am wait listed for Notre Dame and BU. But for now I have been accepted into Minnesota and Iowa. Which is better?

Both send less than 25% of graduates to biglaw. Don't do it.

These are almost carbon-copy peer schools. They place in different states. The LARGE majority of grads at each cannot get biglaw.

I don't think you've thought this thing through very well dude.

gotta retake for big law bro

You likely won't get Big Law from either school. If you want Big Law, you need to retake the LSAT.

The reason these stats are so important (and you need to familiarize yourself with them see: lstscoreports.com) is because big law is not generally something you can stumble into after a few years of doing something else. Normally, you have one shot at BL and that is right out of school (or conversely right out of a federal clerkship -- another result which neither of the listed schools place very well into).

So if you go to school with a 15% shot at BL (and again the actual number for non-diverse students without big law connections and without patent bar eligibility is probably quite a bit smaller) this is often your only shot. So you really ought to sit out and study better for the LSAT (tons of guides and resources over in the LSAT Prep forum) so you can go to a school where you have a better opportunity to accomplish your goals.

dont go to ND or BU if you want biglaw either. these are all regional schools in different states

Plasticflowers wrote:I want to eventually end up in Big Law. I am wait listed for Notre Dame and BU. But for now I have been accepted into Minnesota and Iowa. Which is better?

I can't speak about Iowa. (I'm sure it's great.) But as a current U of Minnesota student, I will say that the students and the professors here are top-notch. Absolutely wonderful. I wrote more about UMN in another thread. See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/p ... &p=9342787. But what are you looking for in a school? Feel free to PM directly if you have any other questions about the school.

randomstudent wrote:

Plasticflowers wrote:I want to eventually end up in Big Law. I am wait listed for Notre Dame and BU. But for now I have been accepted into Minnesota and Iowa. Which is better?

I can't speak about Iowa. (I'm sure it's great.) But as a current U of Minnesota student, I will say that the students and the professors here are top-notch. Absolutely wonderful. I wrote more about UMN in another thread. See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/p ... &p=9342787. But what are you looking for in a school? Feel free to PM directly if you have any other questions about the school.

Professors will not service your debt.

Foghornleghorn wrote:

randomstudent wrote:

Plasticflowers wrote:I want to eventually end up in Big Law. I am wait listed for Notre Dame and BU. But for now I have been accepted into Minnesota and Iowa. Which is better?

I can't speak about Iowa. (I'm sure it's great.) But as a current U of Minnesota student, I will say that the students and the professors here are top-notch. Absolutely wonderful. I wrote more about UMN in another thread. See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/p ... &p=9342787. But what are you looking for in a school? Feel free to PM directly if you have any other questions about the school.

Professors will not service your debt.

But maybe the admissions office will if you do some PR work for them on the side?

For the record, I don't work for Admissions and never have. And yes, having great professors will not pay off your debt. But I'd like to think at least some of us go to law school to learn? If you don't care about the quality of the professors where you go to law school, ignore my comment.

But you all are right, of course, that debt is an important consideration. If you don't get a good scholarship from Iowa or Minnesota, or you're deadset on BigLaw, you can always consider retaking the LSAT.

randomstudent wrote:For the record, I don't work for Admissions and never have. And yes, having great professors will not pay off your debt. But I'd like to think at least some of us go to law school to learn? If you don't care about the quality of the professors where you go to law school, ignore my comment.

But you all are right, of course, that debt is an important consideration. If you don't get a good scholarship from Iowa or Minnesota, or you're deadset on BigLaw, you can always consider retaking the LSAT.

But here's the thing, every top law school has excellent professors. Hell, even some bad law school have really great professors. And you should not go to law school to learn, you should go to law school to get gainful employment. It is a professional school and costs up to $300,000. You don't go "for the experience" or some other crock. Sure you should learn while in law school, but a legal education is going to be similar at every school. The main difference is employment outcomes and neither Minnesota nor Iowa are likely to get this poster their desired employment outcome.

Iowa, the choice of DaRascal

haus wrote:Iowa, the choice of DaRascal

Whatever happened to him? Was any of that real?

Mullens wrote:

randomstudent wrote:For the record, I don't work for Admissions and never have. And yes, having great professors will not pay off your debt. But I'd like to think at least some of us go to law school to learn? If you don't care about the quality of the professors where you go to law school, ignore my comment.

But you all are right, of course, that debt is an important consideration. If you don't get a good scholarship from Iowa or Minnesota, or you're deadset on BigLaw, you can always consider retaking the LSAT.

But here's the thing, every top law school has excellent professors. Hell, even some bad law school have really great professors. And you should not go to law school to learn, you should go to law school to get gainful employment. It is a professional school and costs up to $300,000. You don't go "for the experience" or some other crock. Sure you should learn while in law school, but a legal education is going to be similar at every school. The main difference is employment outcomes and neither Minnesota nor Iowa are likely to get this poster their desired employment outcome.

That's fair. There are two questions here:

1. If the poster is just trying to decide between two comparable schools like Iowa and Minnesota, then I wouldn't say the professors (or the "experience") s/he will have in law school is completely meaningless. Having worked four+ years in the legal field (everything from family law to big law), I'll readily concede that much of legal practice is learned on the job and not from law school. But there are still a few professors that stand out as having better prepared me for practice than others. And a pre-law advisor from Virginia once told me that there was some study that ranked Minnesota's faculty as one of the top 3 in the country. (I don't know if that was true or not.)

2. If, on the other hand, the question is whether the poster should go to law school this year (or retake the LSAT), then, like you pointed out, his or her scholarship offer and the school's tuition / employment rates are more important than the "experience" that s/he will get at law school. For the purpose of this question, the original poster can probably ignore my first comment. My apologies if my first reply came across as a bit salty.

randomstudent wrote:

Mullens wrote:

randomstudent wrote:For the record, I don't work for Admissions and never have. And yes, having great professors will not pay off your debt. But I'd like to think at least some of us go to law school to learn? If you don't care about the quality of the professors where you go to law school, ignore my comment.

But you all are right, of course, that debt is an important consideration. If you don't get a good scholarship from Iowa or Minnesota, or you're deadset on BigLaw, you can always consider retaking the LSAT.

But here's the thing, every top law school has excellent professors. Hell, even some bad law school have really great professors. And you should not go to law school to learn, you should go to law school to get gainful employment. It is a professional school and costs up to $300,000. You don't go "for the experience" or some other crock. Sure you should learn while in law school, but a legal education is going to be similar at every school. The main difference is employment outcomes and neither Minnesota nor Iowa are likely to get this poster their desired employment outcome.

That's fair. I've worked four+ years in the legal field (everything from family law to BigLaw), and I don't agree that the quality of your professors in law school is meaningless. But I don't mean to minimize or disagree with what every else has said about debt and employment rates.

I think you're still missing the point. Every school at the top level has excellent professors. So while the quality of the teachers is certainly important in a school, it's not a deciding factor here. And since every teacher has a different style, a 0L can't possibly know whether or not they're going to mesh well with every teacher at a particular school.

Now, if there are faculty members who happen to also be able to enhance your potential work opportunities after school, that's a different story. Because being really great at helping you understand constitutional law isn't nearly as helpful as having contacts in the ACLU.

cavalier1138 wrote:I think you're still missing the point. Every school at the top level has excellent professors. So while the quality of the teachers is certainly important in a school, it's not a deciding factor here. And since every teacher has a different style, a 0L can't possibly know whether or not they're going to mesh well with every teacher at a particular school.

Every school at the top level has excellent professors. Sure. That's not to say that some schools don't have better professors than others, or that the culture of a law school is meaningless . . . if the original poster is already dead set on going to law school this year. Anyways, just my two cents about my experience at Minnesota. If others disagree on its relevance, that's fine.

I don't discount your experience. I discount its relevance to OP who has said biglaw or bust and the probability of that outcome given OP's options

In terms of which school would provide the best place to live, Iowa, hands down.

Is this heaven? No, it's Iowa.

If you're looking at Big 10 schools, why not U of Illinois? Better shot at big law than Iowa or Minnesota

cron1834 wrote:

haus wrote:Iowa, the choice of DaRascal

Whatever happened to him? Was any of that real?

He went to Seton Hall.

Rigo wrote:

cron1834 wrote:

haus wrote:Iowa, the choice of DaRascal

Whatever happened to him? Was any of that real?

He went to Seton Hall.

It appears that you are right, I do think at one point he claimed to be in route to Iowa on a full ride, but seems that the reference to Seton Hall came later.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... e&start=50

Although DaRascal postings at times have a sense of disconnection from reality.