Top Law Schools

Just looking for some solid input here, hopefully from some current students.

First off I am from NY, have lived here my whole life, and went to undergrad on a full scholarship in NYC. I've heard the "go to school where you want to practice" routine all too many times, and I don't really buy into it although I do understand the advantage that so-called "regional" degrees hold over the out-of-state school. That being said, at this stage in my life I am completely open and impartial as to where I end up/live/work. What I'm really looking for is the best bang-for-your-buck law school experience that will enable me to land a job in a medium sized law firm upon graduation - don't ask me what area of law I want to practice because I don't know....I haven't gone to law school yet. I will NOT be taking the LSAT again because I've taken it twice already and don't see my score improving far beyond what it already is.

My MAIN considerations in choosing said law school are Debt & COA and Scholarship Retention. From what I've heard - from first hand sources who've already experienced this - rank based scholarships are a no-no, and there's some solace in only having to maintain a 2.5 GPA. My older brother and cousins are all in law school right now - cousins are at Miami and brother is at St John's - and their advice is to stick with Miami because a GPA standard bears much less risk than a class ranking. I will be financing tuition with student loans and the rest will be covered by my parents.

24k/yr @ Miami - COA approx. 35k per year - 2.5 GPA requirement
40/yr @ St. John's - COA approx. 15k per year - Top 40%
Full ride @ New York Law - no requirement

What do you think??

Any input (especially from those already committed to out-of-state schools) is appreciated!!!

zimryan wrote: I will take the LSAT again

fixed

Not great options here. Retake.

can't believe scholarship stipulations are still a thing, what an obvious sign that a school is a dumpster fire.

It doesn't seem like you're in a position to make a sound decision here, as you don't have any actual goals, and none of these schools are very good and are least not good enough to warrant going to independent of school-specific goals/placement.

I would say don't go to law school until you figure your shit out better. Or at least get into a school that allows you to not have any real goals (i.e. a T13).

Yeah these aren't really good options. LSAT/GPA?

A. This belongs in the Choosing A Law School forum.

B. Dude, imagine you're sitting on a couch with your future children. It's from the local thrift store. It smells faintly of the previous owner's two-pack/day cigarette habit. Your 5 year old is watching the Maury Show with you on an old barely-color TV you picked up for a couple bucks at a yard sale down the street. It's 3 PM. Five minutes ago, your kid asked you for a snack and you said no. He's obviously hungry but you push that to the back of your mind while you focus on the poor sucker who's about to find out if his ex-gf's baby is his.

"Daddy, are we poor?" It's a tough question for anyone to hear from their kids. Your first instinct is to deny it but as you see Maury's guest leap around on stage when he finds out he is "NOT THE FATHER!!". This gives you momentary sense of joy and the cojones to answer your kid honestly.

"Yes buddy, we're poor."

"Why are we poor Daddy?"

"Because...because I didn't want to take the LSAT again little man."

"What's LSAT?"

"It's a test you take to get into law school. People give you a lot of money and let you go to the best school in the world if you do well on it."

"Oh." He sits for a minute pondering this information. "So, they didn't give you money?"

"No buddy, they didn't...or hardly enough anyway"

"Is that why you don't have a job right now?"

"No, I decided to go to a terrible law school anyway because I was too lazy to take the test again."

"And that made us poor?'

"Well little man, it made me unemployed...and...unemployable. But, the good news is I get to be with you right now as opposed to at work, ok?"

"Ok Daddy!"

"Good deal. I sure love you. Promise me you won't make Daddy's mistakes."

"Promise Daddy."

"Good boy. Now, go wash up, we'll eat dinner a little early tonight. I got hot dogs and kraft mac n' cheese. What would you prefer?"

Retake the fucking LSAT dude.

Your intransigence hurts you.

Consider whether you have ties to an area you want to go to school in. Otherwise it may be hard to find a job.

Consider why you want to go to law school. You don't need to know what type of law you want to practice, but I'm curious how you already know you want to work in a medium-sized firm if you don't know what kind of law you want to practice.

Consider retaking the LSAT, since it can only help you. And if you're refusing to take the LSAT a third time out of laziness, I strongly urge you to consider further why you want to go to law school and enter a field that requires a lot of redundant work.

There is no difference between GPA-contingent scholarships and class rank-contingent scholarships. Both are unacceptable options. Class rank (percentile) will be the same GPA every year, give or take a marginal amount, because of the way the curve works.

Also keep in mind what your cost of living will actually be. St. John's tuition is 55k -- living expenses will add on at least 18k a year, and will probably be much higher.

Damn, that made me sad. OP, don't be that daddy.

I merged this topic with the duplicate in Law School Admissions. Only one thread per topic please. Thanks!

TheMikey wrote:Yeah these aren't really good options. LSAT/GPA?

3.5 /157

ponderingmeerkat wrote:A. This belongs in the Choosing A Law School forum.

B. Dude, imagine you're sitting on a couch with your future children. It's from the local thrift store. It smells faintly of the previous owner's two-pack/day cigarette habit. Your 5 year old is watching the Maury Show with you on an old barely-color TV you picked up for a couple bucks at a yard sale down the street. It's 3 PM. Five minutes ago, your kid asked you for a snack and you said no. He's obviously hungry but you push that to the back of your mind while you focus on the poor sucker who's about to find out if his ex-gf's baby is his.

"Daddy, are we poor?" It's a tough question for anyone to hear from their kids. Your first instinct is to deny it but as you see Maury's guest leap around on stage when he finds out he is "NOT THE FATHER!!". This gives you momentary sense of joy and the cojones to answer your kid honestly.

"Yes buddy, we're poor."

"Why are we poor Daddy?"

"Because...because I didn't want to take the LSAT again little man."

"What's LSAT?"

"It's a test you take to get into law school. People give you a lot of money and let you go to the best school in the world if you do well on it."

"Oh." He sits for a minute pondering this information. "So, they didn't give you money?"

"No buddy, they didn't...or hardly enough anyway"

"Is that why you don't have a job right now?"

"No, I decided to go to a terrible law school anyway because I was too lazy to take the test again."

"And that made us poor?'

"Well little man, it made me unemployed...and...unemployable. But, the good news is I get to be with you right now as opposed to at work, ok?"

"Ok Daddy!"

"Good deal. I sure love you. Promise me you won't make Daddy's mistakes."

"Promise Daddy."

"Good boy. Now, go wash up, we'll eat dinner a little early tonight. I got hot dogs and kraft mac n' cheese. What would you prefer?"

Retake the fucking LSAT dude.

Before you jump to presumptive conclusions, you should ask questions. Laziness is not the reason for not retaking, it's personal circumstance.

xylocarp wrote:I merged this topic with the duplicate in Law School Admissions. Only one thread per topic please. Thanks!

Sorry, I'm new here. Thanks!

I hope you've done your research already, but take a look:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/stjohns/miami/

There are definitely worse options out there. It would DEFINITELY be in your interest to take the next year off. You're probably tired of the retake suggestion, but just take a look at mylsn.info and see how much better your options get with just a few more LSAT points. This website has a ton of study resources that should be able to help. Even if you don't wind up retaking, you could benefit from some time off to help narrow your interests a bit.

If you're set on these options, at least try to negotiate the scholarships. Class rank requirements are generally negotiable as well.

zimryan wrote:

ponderingmeerkat wrote:A. This belongs in the Choosing A Law School forum.

B. Dude, imagine you're sitting on a couch with your future children. It's from the local thrift store. It smells faintly of the previous owner's two-pack/day cigarette habit. Your 5 year old is watching the Maury Show with you on an old barely-color TV you picked up for a couple bucks at a yard sale down the street. It's 3 PM. Five minutes ago, your kid asked you for a snack and you said no. He's obviously hungry but you push that to the back of your mind while you focus on the poor sucker who's about to find out if his ex-gf's baby is his.

"Daddy, are we poor?" It's a tough question for anyone to hear from their kids. Your first instinct is to deny it but as you see Maury's guest leap around on stage when he finds out he is "NOT THE FATHER!!". This gives you momentary sense of joy and the cojones to answer your kid honestly.

"Yes buddy, we're poor."

"Why are we poor Daddy?"

"Because...because I didn't want to take the LSAT again little man."

"What's LSAT?"

"It's a test you take to get into law school. People give you a lot of money and let you go to the best school in the world if you do well on it."

"Oh." He sits for a minute pondering this information. "So, they didn't give you money?"

"No buddy, they didn't...or hardly enough anyway"

"Is that why you don't have a job right now?"

"No, I decided to go to a terrible law school anyway because I was too lazy to take the test again."

"And that made us poor?'

"Well little man, it made me unemployed...and...unemployable. But, the good news is I get to be with you right now as opposed to at work, ok?"

"Ok Daddy!"

"Good deal. I sure love you. Promise me you won't make Daddy's mistakes."

"Promise Daddy."

"Good boy. Now, go wash up, we'll eat dinner a little early tonight. I got hot dogs and kraft mac n' cheese. What would you prefer?"

Retake the fucking LSAT dude.

Before you jump to presumptive conclusions, you should ask questions. Laziness is not the reason for not retaking, it's personal circumstance.

Hey, the reason people tell others to retake is because of the lack of good options someone has. If you had good options, I promise you that people here would be of great help and tell you to take one school over the other, but you just simply don't have great options here. What's the reason for not retaking? Have you taken the LSAT only once? Twice?

jewkidontheblock wrote:I hope you've done your research already, but take a look:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/stjohns/miami/

There are definitely worse options out there. It would DEFINITELY be in your interest to take the next year off. You're probably tired of the retake suggestion, but just take a look at mylsn.info and see how much better your options get with just a few more LSAT points. This website has a ton of study resources that should be able to help. Even if you don't wind up retaking, you could benefit from some time off to help narrow your interests a bit.

If you're set on these options, at least try to negotiate the scholarships. Class rank requirements are generally negotiable as well.

Maybe I should've been more specific about what brought me here.

I applied mostly in NY except Miami b/c the initial plan was to stay in NY. I had full scholarships from Hofstra and NYL, but the Hoftra one required to maintain top 40%, so that's out. I had 10k/yr from Cardozo and tried negotiating but they wouldn't budge, meaning COA would be 200k over 3 years - too much, so that's out.

This is the best I have, and my parents/my situation dictates that I plan on starting law school this year. I appreciate the blunt honesty that people seem to be more than happy to provide and I totally understand the their positions..but I don't need the lectures telling me what I'm doing is wrong.

I wasn't going to chime in here, but I would like to point out that if your "personal circumstances" are such that you can't take the test again even when you have more tries left, you probably aren't going to do well in law school because those same "personal circumstances" are going to keep you from studying the 16 hours a day to be top 2% and those "personal circumstances" are going to be why you don't have the extra time to do law review and moot court. You might want to think about how, if you can't put the time in now to study for the LSAT, you're going to magically create that time in law school when you really, really, really need it to succeed.

jewkidontheblock wrote:I hope you've done your research already, but take a look:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/stjohns/miami/

There are definitely worse options out there. It would DEFINITELY be in your interest to take the next year off. You're probably tired of the retake suggestion, but just take a look at mylsn.info and see how much better your options get with just a few more LSAT points. This website has a ton of study resources that should be able to help. Even if you don't wind up retaking, you could benefit from some time off to help narrow your interests a bit.

If you're set on these options, at least try to negotiate the scholarships. Class rank requirements are generally negotiable as well.

Maybe I should've been more specific about what brought me here.

I applied mostly in NY except Miami b/c the initial plan was to stay in NY. I had full scholarships from Hofstra and NYL, but the Hoftra one required to maintain top 40%, so that's out. I had 10k/yr from Cardozo and tried negotiating but they wouldn't budge, meaning COA would be 200k over 3 years - too much, so that's out.

Ive done my research. I think I also should've been more specific with regard to my professional goals and aspirations, but what I meant by "not knowing what field of law I want to practice" is I have an IDEA of what I want to do, but as we all know how life turns out is not always the case. I am interested in Sports & Entertainment and/or IP Law (hence Miami)... But obviously that could change once I take classes in these subjects and see what it's really like.

Well, what you're doing is, in fact, objectively wrong, and you seem very un/misinformed about law school and the legal profession, so you actually do need lectures.

ETA: of course, you want to do sports law.

These are all terrible options. You need to study harder for the LSAT and get into schools that give you more than a coin-flips chance of getting a job as an attorney.

Traynor Brah wrote:Well, what you're doing is, in fact, objectively wrong, and you seem very un/misinformed about law school and the legal profession, so you actually do need lectures.

ETA: of course, you want to do sports law.

So your advice is don't go to law school unless you're int T14. Thanks bud!

zimryan wrote:

Traynor Brah wrote:Well, what you're doing is, in fact, objectively wrong, and you seem very un/misinformed about law school and the legal profession, so you actually do need lectures.

ETA: of course, you want to do sports law.

So your advice is don't go to law school unless you're int T14. Thanks bud!

That's not at all what I said. What I said is if you're going to be an idiot and go to law school without any meaningful goals or geographical aspirations (i.e. you), you had at least better go to a school that can provide a wide range of outcomes and/or geographies, and only about thirteen schools loosely fit that bill.

Traynor Brah wrote:

zimryan wrote:

Traynor Brah wrote:Well, what you're doing is, in fact, objectively wrong, and you seem very un/misinformed about law school and the legal profession, so you actually do need lectures.

ETA: of course, you want to do sports law.

So your advice is don't go to law school unless you're int T14. Thanks bud!

That's not at all what I said. What I said is if you're going to be an idiot and go to law school without any meaningful goals or geographical aspirations (i.e. you), you had at least better go to a school that can provide a wide range of outcomes and/or geographies, and only about thirteen schools loosely fit that bill.

And you mischaracterize what I said. I didn't say I'll go to one of these schools and the world will open up for me. The point was that if I go to Miami, I'm prepared to live/practice in Florida..same goes for St. John's in NY. The only reason I even mentioned NYL is because it's a full scholarship, I don't think I ever had any real intention of going there.

I do have meaningful goals. Just didn't feel like even broaching the subject only to be met with your arrogant attitude

Right.

And saying you generally want to do sports & entertainment law or IP (sans a relevant hard sciences background), especially when attending one of these schools, means you do not have meaningful goals. You need to seriously reconsider what you're doing here, as everyone has said.

Seems like you have it all figured out though; godspeed bruh

Traynor Brah wrote:Right.

And saying you generally want to do sports & entertainment law or IP (sans a relevant hard sciences background), especially when attending one of these schools, means you do not have meaningful goals. You need to seriously reconsider what you're doing here, as everyone has said.

Seems like you have it all figured out though; godspeed bruh

You know what you're right, I'll get on it right away. You've really opened up my eyes. Thanks!