Cornell (Half) vs. StJohn's (Full) Forum

[silverdoe91]

i am starting at cornell with a half scholarship this fall and i can't believe this fucked up thread exists

Maybe you have different values than I do.

in seriousness though it does seem like you just aren't ready to move away from home yet, OP. which is fine if that's the case, but you should be honest with yourself about it.

I am ready to move away from home, I'd just rather not spend over 100k in loans to do it, lol. Plus I'm not sure if it's the right environment for me. I liked it when I visited but it wasn't snowing then (even though it was November, so idk why everyone here is saying its super cold there in November bc it wasn't when I visited. :/)

[Rigo]

This past winter was pretty mild. The temperature itself will be comparable, despite being a little colder in Ithaca. But winter is winter. However, Ithaca tends to be more overcast than NYC so less sunny days if that's a problem for you. It isn't the best place for SAD for sure.

Ithaca isn't on there but it's around Binghamton and Syracuse's numbers.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Where are you at with going to law school this cycle period?
If you want to move out anyways, that changes the COL's for the NYC area schools drastically.

[reasonable_man]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

I do hope that the masses have informed you of the insanity of what you're considering and you've already mailed in your seat deposit at cornell.

Also, FWIW, SJU use to stack sections with that ST. Thomas Scholly and wait for kids to get killed by the curve. Not sure if that still happens, but it used to and its something to think about.

[Rigo]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

[reasonable_man]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

[Rigo]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

Please advocate for Fordham. OP has been begging for anti-Cornell opinions for 9 pages.

[reasonable_man]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

Please advocate for Fordham. OP has been begging for anti-Cornell opinions for 9 pages.

Here goes nothing:

Op: It seems you're set on going to law school and so the question is whether Cornell is worth a $75,000 premium. Since we're discussing money, I'm going to ignore any arguments about quality of education and focus only on dollars and cents.

Fordham's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/fordham/2015/

Cornell's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/cornell/2015/

Well shit. Now that I did that, I feel badly about advocating for Fordham. At Fordham, you've got a 33.7 percent chance of landing a job in biglaw and a 1.7% chance of landing a clerkship (the other safe route into biglaw). By comparison, at Cornell, you've got a 62.8 percent chance of landing a biglaw spot and a 3.8% chance of landing a clerkship. So basically, your chances at landing a spot in biglaw at Cornell would appear to be about double than if you attend Fordham.

[stego]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

Please advocate for Fordham. OP has been begging for anti-Cornell opinions for 9 pages.

Here goes nothing:

Op: It seems you're set on going to law school and so the question is whether Cornell is worth a $75,000 premium. Since we're discussing money, I'm going to ignore any arguments about quality of education and focus only on dollars and cents.

Fordham's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/fordham/2015/

Cornell's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/cornell/2015/

Well shit. Now that I did that, I feel badly about advocating for Fordham. At Fordham, you've got a 33.7 percent chance of landing a job in biglaw and a 1.7% chance of landing a clerkship (the other safe route into biglaw). By comparison, at Cornell, you've got a 62.8 percent chance of landing a biglaw spot and a 3.8% chance of landing a clerkship. So basically, your chances at landing a spot in biglaw at Cornell would appear to be about double than if you attend Fordham.

Reasonable_man, Opie wants PI, not biglaw. That's why he's so freaked out about the debt.

[reasonable_man]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

Please advocate for Fordham. OP has been begging for anti-Cornell opinions for 9 pages.

Here goes nothing:

Op: It seems you're set on going to law school and so the question is whether Cornell is worth a $75,000 premium. Since we're discussing money, I'm going to ignore any arguments about quality of education and focus only on dollars and cents.

Fordham's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/fordham/2015/

Cornell's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/cornell/2015/

Well shit. Now that I did that, I feel badly about advocating for Fordham. At Fordham, you've got a 33.7 percent chance of landing a job in biglaw and a 1.7% chance of landing a clerkship (the other safe route into biglaw). By comparison, at Cornell, you've got a 62.8 percent chance of landing a biglaw spot and a 3.8% chance of landing a clerkship. So basically, your chances at landing a spot in biglaw at Cornell would appear to be about double than if you attend Fordham.

Reasonable_man, Opie wants PI, not biglaw. That's why he's so freaked out about the debt.

Ah fuck. What a waste of copying and pasting links to LST.

[silverdoe91]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

He's now looking at Cornell for $150k debt versus Fordham or Cardozo for about half of that, I believe.
Thankfully St.John's is off the table now.

Well at least this is a conversation worth having.

Please advocate for Fordham. OP has been begging for anti-Cornell opinions for 9 pages.

Here goes nothing:

Op: It seems you're set on going to law school and so the question is whether Cornell is worth a $75,000 premium. Since we're discussing money, I'm going to ignore any arguments about quality of education and focus only on dollars and cents.

Fordham's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/fordham/2015/

Cornell's numbers on LST: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/cornell/2015/

Well shit. Now that I did that, I feel badly about advocating for Fordham. At Fordham, you've got a 33.7 percent chance of landing a job in biglaw and a 1.7% chance of landing a clerkship (the other safe route into biglaw). By comparison, at Cornell, you've got a 62.8 percent chance of landing a biglaw spot and a 3.8% chance of landing a clerkship. So basically, your chances at landing a spot in biglaw at Cornell would appear to be about double than if you attend Fordham.

Thanks for the advice! I've checked their profiles on every law related website imaginable, but when it comes down to it, money plays a big factor. As others have mentioned, I'd like to go into PI not BigLaw. I wouldn't mind having BigLaw as an option, but I don't want to be forced into it in order to pay off my loans. Others have mentioned Cornell's LRAP, and I've done research on it to get more info; it sounds solid, but I can't help but be suspicious about it because so far no one has been able to give me an account of their experiences with the program as it has recently been revamped into a "new program." That being said, what are you suggestions, financially speaking, if I want to go into PI law?

[silverdoe91]

Someone catch me up... Op is considering SJU for free v. Cornell with a 1/2 scholarship?!?!

I do hope that the masses have informed you of the insanity of what you're considering and you've already mailed in your seat deposit at cornell.

Also, FWIW, SJU use to stack sections with that ST. Thomas Scholly and wait for kids to get killed by the curve. Not sure if that still happens, but it used to and its something to think about.

Thanks, that's reassuring. I just missed the deposit deadline for SJU and I felt really bad about it bc that full ride looked really good (I got the one where I have to only be in the top 80% to keep it, which is fine by me. I doubt a curve can throw me to the bottom 20% of the barrel?)

[cavalier1138]

This is a train wreck that I just can't stop watching.

If you're going in to PI, I can't fathom why you haven't already done your due diligence on LRAP. If you had, you wouldn't be suspicious because of the "new" program, which every school has. If a school didn't get a new program to account for PSLF, then that would be cause for skepticism. But this is just ridiculous.

[TheRealSantaClaus]

.

[Mikey]

I doubt a curve can throw me to the bottom 20% of the barrel?)

That's what the bottom 20% thought, which is why people here stress the importance of getting stips removed. Especially for a school like SJU where even a full ride is questionable.

[reasonable_man]

Is this thread really still going?

Fordham does one thing relatively well for a non-T20: place people in biglaw, and the numbers reflect that. If you're fine having to hustle for a shot at an ADA or public defender position from Fordham, go there. If you want a chance at more prestige conscious PI gigs, you should 100% go to Cornell or try for another T14. I can't see Fordham really giving much of an edge for PI over the TT and TTT NYC schools.

I would tend to agree with this - but my knowledge of PI is very minimal. Generally, big time PI employers are just as big on prestige whoring as biglaw. And small time PI isn't likely to be more impressed by Fordham than say Dozo...

[deepseapartners]

Others have mentioned Cornell's LRAP, and I've done research on it to get more info; it sounds solid, but I can't help but be suspicious about it because so far no one has been able to give me an account of their experiences with the program as it has recently been revamped into a "new program."

I just really don't understand what other information you are looking for. Are you really dead-set on hearing a personalized (to not you) story about LRAP, instead of looking at the information and logistics of the program and then making a judgment about whether or not it will work for you?

You clearly don't want to go to Cornell, so don't go. Just understand that, unless you retake and score significantly higher, you will not be offered a better option, based on your numbers.

[Mikey]

You clearly don't want to go to Cornell, so don't go.

[silverdoe91]

Is this thread really still going?

Fordham does one thing relatively well for a non-T20: place people in biglaw, and the numbers reflect that. If you're fine having to hustle for a shot at an ADA or public defender position from Fordham, go there. If you want a chance at more prestige conscious PI gigs, you should 100% go to Cornell or try for another T14. I can't see Fordham really giving much of an edge for PI over the TT and TTT NYC schools.

I would tend to agree with this - but my knowledge of PI is very minimal. Generally, big time PI employers are just as big on prestige whoring as biglaw. And small time PI isn't likely to be more impressed by Fordham than say Dozo...

Yeah, that's the thing. In the non-profits I've worked at so far, or have connections to in NYC, I've seen way more Cardozo people than Fordham. Heck even at the corporate firm I worked at I saw more Cardozo people than Fordham. It may be that just that firm though bc they have ties to Cardozo but I'm wondering why they don't want Fordham grads? (This is a top 20 firm btw) Fordham may place well with other corporate firms according to stats but their employment ratings overall are still lower than Cardozo and SJU. Which is why the fact that Fordham ranks so much higher is really mind-boggling for me. I guess it's simply bc a larger percentage of their grads go into corporate firms, but you probably have to be in the top 30% to get those jobs. I wonder if it would be harder to be in the top percent at Fordham or Cornell though? Both typically have a lot of Ivy League grads in their classes....I'm trying to find a Fordham Law grad so I can pick their brain and get a fuller picture. So far I've only spoken to Cornell/Cardozo/SJU grads.

Yes, I know this is a lot of work for deciding which law school to go to, but 100k is a lot of money for me. I guess I'm just cheap. Whatever you wanna call it, but I don't wanna drop 100k on a school without knowing all the ins and outs beforehand.

If this thread is bothering you, then please feel free to ignore it. No one is forcing you to be here!

[silverdoe91]

This past winter was pretty mild. The temperature itself will be comparable, despite being a little colder in Ithaca. But winter is winter. However, Ithaca tends to be more overcast than NYC so less sunny days if that's a problem for you. It isn't the best place for SAD for sure.

Ithaca isn't on there but it's around Binghamton and Syracuse's numbers.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Where are you at with going to law school this cycle period?
If you want to move out anyways, that changes the COL's for the NYC area schools drastically.

Thanks for the info! It's really helpful. It doesn't seem to make sense to me to move out during law school if I go to a school in the city. Not unless I work full-time to pay the rent, in which case I prob would not be able to do that till at least I'm a 2L or 3L. I know people who've done it before.

[Nachoo2019]

This past winter was pretty mild. The temperature itself will be comparable, despite being a little colder in Ithaca. But winter is winter. However, Ithaca tends to be more overcast than NYC so less sunny days if that's a problem for you. It isn't the best place for SAD for sure.

Ithaca isn't on there but it's around Binghamton and Syracuse's numbers.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Where are you at with going to law school this cycle period?
If you want to move out anyways, that changes the COL's for the NYC area schools drastically.

Thanks for the info! It's really helpful. It doesn't seem to make sense to me to move out during law school if I go to a school in the city. Not unless I work full-time to pay the rent, in which case I prob would not be able to do that till at least I'm a 2L or 3L. I know people who've done it before.

Doesn't the ABA have guidelines for the amount of hours you can work during the school year? Like 20 hours a week?

[reasonable_man]

This past winter was pretty mild. The temperature itself will be comparable, despite being a little colder in Ithaca. But winter is winter. However, Ithaca tends to be more overcast than NYC so less sunny days if that's a problem for you. It isn't the best place for SAD for sure.

Ithaca isn't on there but it's around Binghamton and Syracuse's numbers.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Where are you at with going to law school this cycle period?
If you want to move out anyways, that changes the COL's for the NYC area schools drastically.

Thanks for the info! It's really helpful. It doesn't seem to make sense to me to move out during law school if I go to a school in the city. Not unless I work full-time to pay the rent, in which case I prob would not be able to do that till at least I'm a 2L or 3L. I know people who've done it before.

Doesn't the ABA have guidelines for the amount of hours you can work during the school year? Like 20 hours a week?

They do. Its like 15 hours a week. I've never actually seen this enforced - and I worked a lot during LS. Not advocating anyone ignore the rules, but it is what it is. I also think the hour-limit only applies during 1L? But I could be off base on that.

[silverdoe91]

Just for the record, I don't need anyone to convince me to go anywhere. I just came here for facts.

I've looked up stats (been looking them up for years now) but there's only so much stats can tell you. Stats can be fabricated. Stats can miss core elements and factors such as whether or not you'll like the school environment (not really something you can know from just one visit, but experience from being there for a long time) how competitive it is, and how accessible the opportunities they list on their website really are (either due to transportation or just in general; what percentage of the class actually gets the internships they want.) These facts are not displayed on the website, and you need to talk to people who've went there to actually get a clear idea of these facts. So far, I've gotten a lot of info about Cornell, and I thank everyone who has made an input, but I haven't gotten the same perspective on other schools so it seems like a very biased pool of information to make a decision on.

Also, the reason why this thread has gone for as long as it has is mostly because of people commenting on how stupid it is. Like 90% of the comments on here are about that which is really not helpful, but it's definitely making this conservation seem a lot longer than it really is.

[LandMermaid]

You clearly don't want to go to Cornell, so don't go.

[silverdoe91]

This past winter was pretty mild. The temperature itself will be comparable, despite being a little colder in Ithaca. But winter is winter. However, Ithaca tends to be more overcast than NYC so less sunny days if that's a problem for you. It isn't the best place for SAD for sure.

Ithaca isn't on there but it's around Binghamton and Syracuse's numbers.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Where are you at with going to law school this cycle period?
If you want to move out anyways, that changes the COL's for the NYC area schools drastically.

Thanks for the info! It's really helpful. It doesn't seem to make sense to me to move out during law school if I go to a school in the city. Not unless I work full-time to pay the rent, in which case I prob would not be able to do that till at least I'm a 2L or 3L. I know people who've done it before.

Doesn't the ABA have guidelines for the amount of hours you can work during the school year? Like 20 hours a week?

They do. Its like 15 hours a week. I've never actually seen this enforced - and I worked a lot during LS. Not advocating anyone ignore the rules, but it is what it is. I also think the hour-limit only applies during 1L? But I could be off base on that.

Yeah, it's only for 1L's but its more of a recommendation than an enforced rule. Of course I probably would not be working as a 1L but 2L and 3L seems more plausible. What kind of work did you during LS and how many hours? Feel free to PM me if you want!

[cavalier1138]

Yes, I know this is a lot of work for deciding which law school to go to, but 100k is a lot of money for me. I guess I'm just cheap. Whatever you wanna call it, but I don't wanna drop 100k on a school without knowing all the ins and outs beforehand.

If this thread is bothering you, then please feel free to ignore it. No one is forcing you to be here!

No one has claimed that 100k isn't a significant amount of money or that you shouldn't take all the time you need to think about where to attend school. It's a huge decision, and a lot of money is riding on it.

But (as you pointed out) posting on this thread is 100% voluntary, as was your decision to post this thread in the first place. The level of incredulity here has nothing to do with you considering all the angles. Everyone is bewildered by your assertion that you want advice and your subsequent attempts to totally ignore all that advice in favor of taking a road that no one with half a brain would recommend.

This would be different if you had actually done your due diligence and researched things like LRAP, etc. But you haven't. And you've ignored every post that has explained them for you. Instead, your greatest objections seem to be that you don't think you'll like Ithaca and you'll miss your family. And the simple answer to both of those is to suck it up and do what's best for your future.

However, as others have already noted, you clearly don't want to go to Cornell. So don't. But please bookmark this thread for that day three years from now when you're thinking about what might have been.