Page 1 of 2
The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:19 pm
by UsernameNotFound
About me:
• Currently live in the Inland Empire but spend most of my time in Orange County
• Not sure what area of law I want to go into, but am interested in corporate/business
- if all else fails, I think I can come back to my current job and work in house corporate counsel
• Would like to end up working in Orange County
• 3.1 GPA
- Sucks but nothing I can do about it now
• 164 LSAT
-Taken 3 times already so not retaking anymore, please don’t bother telling me to. And I will be going to law school this year.
My choices:
Chapman
• Tuition = $48,150/yr
• Estimated CoA = $64,000
• Full ride
- Good academic standing
• Would be able to live at home
• But not really interested because I know their stats are horrible
USD
• Tuition = $48,831
• Estimated CoA = $120,000
• $30,000/yr scholarship
- + $4,000 for my first year
- and the opportunity to get more later for my 2nd and 3rd year as long as I do well
- 2.8 stip (top 70%)
- - Non-negotiable
- Already negotiated up from original offer of $25,000
• Loved the campus
• Don’t mind moving to SD and maybe wouldn’t mind working there
• Housing where most students live is ridiculously priced so will probably have to live around 10 minutes away which isn’t too bad
Loyola
• Tuition = $50,050
• Estimated CoA = $141,000
• $34,000/yr scholarship
- 2.8 stip
- Refused to negotiate
• Not a big fan of the campus or the area
- But it is downtown LA which can give me more job opportunities even though I don't actually want to work there
• May be able to find reasonably priced housing in the area
Pepperdine
• Tuition = $51,180
• Estimated CoA = $150,000
• $30,000/yr
- 2.3 stip
- Non-negotiable
• Absolutely gorgeous campus on the beach which I love
• On-campus housing is ridiculously priced so will probably have to live in Santa Monica or something
UCI
• Tuition = $44,765
• If I do get off the WL I think it would be my top choice even though I would likely not get much money
If you need any more information, let me know.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:34 pm
by cron1834
All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:49 pm
by UsernameNotFound
cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:55 pm
by BigZuck
UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
Cost and job prospects/career goals are pretty much the only factors that really matter. When you have multiple choices that make sense on those grounds then you can start putting other factors into the mix.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:58 pm
by cron1834
UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
It's called cost-benefit analysis. You can't do it without knowing the costs. That's like half of it dude.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:17 pm
by UsernameNotFound
cron1834 wrote:UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
It's called cost-benefit analysis. You can't do it without knowing the costs. That's like half of it dude.
No I know that. Obviously. But you only just asked about CoA. Not Employment stats or bar passage rates or whatever else.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:33 pm
by ProfPasteur
UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
It's called cost-benefit analysis. You can't do it without knowing the costs. That's like half of it dude.
No I know that. Obviously. But you only just asked about CoA. Not Employment stats or bar passage rates or whatever else.
They don't need the employments stats/bar passage rates because we can find that information very easily (it's on LST). On the other hand, CoA will vary from person to person, so they would need that info before they can give you good advice.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:43 pm
by cron1834
ProfPasteur wrote:UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:UsernameNotFound wrote:cron1834 wrote:All this information, and you neglected the most important data points. Go calculate total COAs for each school, including presumptive tuition increases, not-conservative COL, and interest. Post a worst-case debt total bottom-line for each school.
I kinda think the answer is going to be study for two years and retake for non-shit options, but you should do the math so people can evaluate efficiently. We're not doing the math for you.
So then you're saying that money is the only thing I should base my decision off of then
It's called cost-benefit analysis. You can't do it without knowing the costs. That's like half of it dude.
No I know that. Obviously. But you only just asked about CoA. Not Employment stats or bar passage rates or whatever else.
They don't need the employments stats/bar passage rates because we can find that information very easily (it's on LST). On the other hand, CoA will vary from person to person, so they would need that info before they can give you good advice.
Bingo. LST does the jobs math, users do the COA math (don't be conservative with COL, assume interest, and account for tuition increases), TLS compares one with the other. Yes it's formulaic, but this will eliminate obviously-terrible choices efficiently. If that happens to include all of your choices, retake/reapply/don't go is the result (i.e., get different choices).
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:14 pm
by Rigo
UsernameNotFound wrote:
• On-campus housing is ridiculously priced so will probably have to live in Santa Monica or something
Minor point while we await COA's, but you do know Santa Monica is pretty expensive as well right?
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:57 pm
by Dr. Nefario
Rigo wrote:UsernameNotFound wrote:
• On-campus housing is ridiculously priced so will probably have to live in Santa Monica or something
Minor point while we await COA's, but you do know Santa Monica is pretty expensive as well right?
Off topic post: your new avi is gorgeous, but I miss the dragon.
ETA: OP what is are the stips in relation to the curve?
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:27 pm
by Mullens
None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:43 pm
by LShopeful2016
Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:54 pm
by Rigo
LShopeful2016 wrote:Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
The higher the risks, the more laser focused you need to be so you don't end up going to a toilet deciding you want biglaw.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:13 pm
by LShopeful2016
Rigo wrote:LShopeful2016 wrote:Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
The higher the risks, the more laser focused you need to be so you don't end up going to a toilet deciding you want biglaw.
You shouldn't be going to these schools if you want to go biglaw anyways. But that still doesn't mean you need to know exactly what you wanna do. Although yes, I agree that you should have some idea.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:35 pm
by UsernameNotFound
Looks like SD is winning according to the poll, but I updated my original post to add more information that you guys asked for.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:38 pm
by LShopeful2016
UsernameNotFound wrote:Looks like SD is winning according to the poll, but I updated my original post to add more information that you guys asked for.
Thanks for adding the extra info. I would say go to SD as long as you're absolutely sure you don't mind being stuck there.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:19 pm
by cron1834
Way too much money for poor schools. Not worth it.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:35 pm
by Mullens
Most corporate/business work is done by biglaw firms that won't hire you out of these schools. Way too expensive for a low likelihood of meeting your career goals.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 3:10 pm
by BigZuck
LShopeful2016 wrote:Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
You're saying this...as a 0L?
If you're going to schools with poor job placement you better be sure that school can get you the job you want just like Rigo said. Career goals are very important to have as an applicant because that's a major factor in deciding whether a school is worth attending or not. VERY IMPORTANT.
V
E
R
Y
I
M
P
O
R
T
A
N
T
It doesn't have to be set in stone, but in so far as you can do it you have to make sure that what you might want to pivot towards is also attainable. Basically you can't go to a regional school wanting to be a public defender and then decide as a 3L that you want to work at a big firm. The ship will likely have sailed, and you chose the wrong school in the first place. That's all something you need to have sorted out as a 0L.
Having an idea of what you want to study isn't really all that important because law school is laughably horrible when it comes to the actual school part.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 3:20 pm
by LShopeful2016
BigZuck wrote:LShopeful2016 wrote:Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
You're saying this...as a 0L?
If you're going to schools with poor job placement you better be sure that school can get you the job you want just like Rigo said. Career goals are very important to have as an applicant because that's a major factor in deciding whether a school is worth attending or not. VERY IMPORTANT.
V
E
R
Y
I
M
P
O
R
T
A
N
T
It doesn't have to be set in stone, but in so far as you can do it you have to make sure that what you might want to pivot towards is also attainable. Basically you can't go to a regional school wanting to be a public defender and then decide as a 3L that you want to work at a big firm. The ship will likely have sailed, and you chose the wrong school in the first place. That's all something you need to have sorted out as a 0L.
Having an idea of what you want to study isn't really all that important because law school is laughably horrible when it comes to the actual school part.
I'm saying this as someone who knows many people who went to law school. All different rankings. All over California. Most not knowing exactly what they wanted to do and they ended up just fine, some way better than just fine.
But don't listen to me, OP. I'm just a 0L that doesn't know anything about anything.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 3:32 pm
by BigZuck
The anecdotes you've no doubt carefully cultivated don't mean a whole lot for the average person applying to law school
Someone who goes to, say, Cornell doesn't need to have particularly well-defined career goals. Someone who goes to, say, Chapman better know, at the very least, that they 100% don't want the types of jobs that are almost certainly foreclosed to Chapman grads.
The OP did give us their (vaguely defined) career goals. It sounds like none of these schools make sense, but maybe the OP can clarify what they mean by corporate/business
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:30 pm
by cron1834
LShopeful2016 wrote:BigZuck wrote:LShopeful2016 wrote:Mullens wrote:None of the above at your COA with no clear career goals.
Most people don't have
clear career goals when going to law school. They usually just have an idea of what they want to study. And that's ok.
You're saying this...as a 0L?
If you're going to schools with poor job placement you better be sure that school can get you the job you want just like Rigo said. Career goals are very important to have as an applicant because that's a major factor in deciding whether a school is worth attending or not. VERY IMPORTANT.
V
E
R
Y
I
M
P
O
R
T
A
N
T
It doesn't have to be set in stone, but in so far as you can do it you have to make sure that what you might want to pivot towards is also attainable. Basically you can't go to a regional school wanting to be a public defender and then decide as a 3L that you want to work at a big firm. The ship will likely have sailed, and you chose the wrong school in the first place. That's all something you need to have sorted out as a 0L.
Having an idea of what you want to study isn't really all that important because law school is laughably horrible when it comes to the actual school part.
I'm saying this as someone who knows many people who went to law school. All different rankings. All over California. Most not knowing exactly what they wanted to do and they ended up just fine, some way better than just fine.
But don't listen to me, OP. I'm just a 0L that doesn't know anything about anything.
Maybe all of your friends can cover OP's monthly debt payments when OP graduates from a terrible school 6 figures in debt. Otherwise, they're not helpful, and neither are you.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:32 pm
by lymenheimer
LShopeful2016 wrote:
I'm saying this as someone who knows many people who went to law school. All different rankings. All over California. Most not knowing exactly what they wanted to do and they ended up just fine, some way better than just fine.
But don't listen to me, OP. I'm just a 0L that doesn't know anything about anything.
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:41 pm
by LShopeful2016
YHS/BigLaw or bust, OP! Don't settle like everyone else on this thread!
Re: The usual t2 SoCal Schools (SD/Pepperdine/Loyola)
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:49 pm
by pancakes3
LShopeful2016 wrote:YHS/BigLaw or bust, OP! Don't settle like everyone else on this thread!
Or he can take advice from someone who can't even make a sarcastic jab without peppering it with fail.