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Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:18 am
by matterhorn
The schools you are considering
Michigan (135k)
Penn (90k)
Duke (105k)
Cornell (150k)
Berkeley (still waiting on fin aid)
The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each
Michigan - $99,770
Penn - $165,035
Duke - $135,605
Cornell - $103,527
Berkeley - ?
How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Parents will be contributing $6k/year for COL, loans for the rest.
Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
Born and raised in socal, went to undergrad in bay area, want to work in CA long-term
Your general career goals
AIII clerk, then biglaw in CA (either LA or SF/SV) -> eventually work for fed/state gov -> judge (1 in a billion chance probably lol but that's the dream)
Your LSAT/GPA numbers
170/3.9, KJD (gpa definitely going down a little after this semester)
Berkeley at the right price obviously makes the most sense, but they're really lagging it on financial aid. Already emailed them twice about my matching scholarship app with a deadline last week, but they haven't responded to my last three emails. I know I should wait until I have all my options, but all my deposit deadlines are this week and I want to be prepared if Berkeley doesn't get back to me this week.
Right now I'm leaning Michigan but I'm wondering how hard will it be to get CA biglaw from Michigan. Their employment numbers improved a lot for the c/o 2015 but they have been lower than the rest of the t13 for the past several years. How hard is it to get CA biglaw from Cornell? Is Penn/Duke worth the extra $? This forum has been a huge help for me throughout my law school admissions process and I'm eager to hear from others who know much more than me! Thanks in advance!
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:24 am
by rpupkin
matterhorn wrote:Right now I'm leaning Michigan but I'm wondering how hard will it be to get CA biglaw from Michigan.
Probably about as hard as it is to get big law from the other schools you're interested in (besides Berkeley). If you don't get significant aid from Berkeley, I'd go to Michigan.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:26 am
by matterhorn
rpupkin wrote:Probably about as hard as it is to get big law from the other schools you're interested in (besides Berkeley). If you don't get significant aid from Berkeley, I'd go to Michigan.
How much difference in COA vs. Michigan do you think is worth it to go to Berkeley? for the advantage Berkeley has in placing in CA biglaw
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:30 am
by rpupkin
matterhorn wrote:rpupkin wrote:Probably about as hard as it is to get big law from the other schools you're interested in (besides Berkeley). If you don't get significant aid from Berkeley, I'd go to Michigan.
How much difference in COA vs. Michigan do you think is worth it to go to Berkeley? for the advantage Berkeley has in placing in CA biglaw
I dunno--this kind of thing is at least somewhat subjective. If you're dead set on California (and in particular if you have a preference for SF/SV), I'd pay $30K more--give or take a few thousand--to go to Berkeley.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:07 pm
by matterhorn
rpupkin wrote:I dunno--this kind of thing is at least somewhat subjective. If you're dead set on California (and in particular if you have a preference for SF/SV), I'd pay $30K more--give or take a few thousand--to go to Berkeley.
Thanks for the response.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:33 pm
by michlaw
I would say Penn or Michigan. Duke makes little sense at a higher cost than Michigan. And Cornell even money goes to Michigan. Berkeley as you say is the wild card and anything up to 25K more than Michigan would seem smart. Michigan is very Midwest and would certainly have a very different vibe than So-Cal. I always get the feeling than Penn is more closely aligned with the schools ahead of it that the ones behind it. If you choose Michigan I think you will find it a rewarding experience. Great town, beautiful facilities, and the school has worked hard to reestablish itself in the new legal reality.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:53 pm
by curry1
michlaw wrote:I would say Penn or Michigan. Duke makes little sense at a higher cost than Michigan. And Cornell even money goes to Michigan. Berkeley as you say is the wild card and anything up to 25K more than Michigan would seem smart. Michigan is very Midwest and would certainly have a very different vibe than So-Cal. I always get the feeling than Penn is more closely aligned with the schools ahead of it that the ones behind it. If you choose Michigan I think you will find it a rewarding experience. Great town, beautiful facilities, and the school has worked hard to reestablish itself in the new legal reality.
Has living in Ann Arbor stripped you of your geographic knowledge? Berkeley is ~400 miles north of "So-Cal."
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:54 pm
by rpupkin
michlaw wrote:I would say Penn or Michigan.
If OP's goal is California big law, what is the point in paying $30K more for Penn over Duke? And why would you put Penn and Michigan neck-and-neck when Penn would cost $65K more?
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:56 pm
by michlaw
Has living in Ann Arbor stripped you of your geographic knowledge? Berkeley is ~400 miles north of "So-Cal."
Duh. He said he grew up in So-Cal so I think the mid-west observation has merit. You may of course disagree.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:18 pm
by usernotfound
Michigan sent 40 people to California, and Cornell sent 12 according to c/o 2015 ABA data. That's probably in large part due to self-selection, but take that for what you may.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:51 pm
by matterhorn
I guess my question at the end of the day is: Do I have a higher chance of getting CA big law from schools with better employment numbers overall (Duke/Penn compared to Michigan)? If so, are those chances worth the extra $$? Do CA firms view all these schools (except Berkeley) as the same (e.g. if i am median at Penn, Michigan, Duke, or Cornell, will I have the same chances of landing CA biglaw?)
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:57 pm
by rpupkin
matterhorn wrote:I guess my question at the end of the day is: Do I have a higher chance of getting CA big law from schools with better employment numbers overall (Duke/Penn compared to Michigan)? If so, are those chances worth the extra $$? Do CA firms view all these schools (except Berkeley) as the same (e.g. if i am median at Penn, Michigan, Duke, or Cornell, will I have the same chances of landing CA biglaw?)
Yes, I think they're all basically viewed the same. Michigan may have a
slightly better rep out here than Penn/Duke, and Cornell may have a
slightly worse rep than the other three, but the differences, if they exist at all, aren't enough to lose sleep or money over.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:57 pm
by Nebby
When do you have to make a decision?
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:02 pm
by matterhorn
rpupkin wrote:Yes, I think they're all basically viewed the same. Michigan may have a slightly better rep out here than Penn/Duke, and Cornell may have a slightly worse rep than the other three, but the differences, if they exist at all, aren't enough to lose sleep or money over.
That's what I thought (and hoped). That's why I'm leaning Mich but my prestige-blinded parents can't seem to understand why I'm turning down two Ivies for a random state school in the middle of nowhere lol.
Thanks for the response.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:03 pm
by matterhorn
Nebby wrote:When do you have to make a decision?
Deposit deadlines all this weekend (4/29, 4/30, 5/1)
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:04 pm
by Nebby
matterhorn wrote:rpupkin wrote:Yes, I think they're all basically viewed the same. Michigan may have a slightly better rep out here than Penn/Duke, and Cornell may have a slightly worse rep than the other three, but the differences, if they exist at all, aren't enough to lose sleep or money over.
That's what I thought (and hoped). That's why I'm leaning Mich but my prestige-blinded parents can't seem to understand why I'm turning down two Ivies for a random state school in the middle of nowhere lol.
Thanks for the response.
Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:06 pm
by orangered
michlaw wrote:I always get the feeling than Penn is more closely aligned with the schools ahead of it that the ones behind it.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:07 pm
by rpupkin
orangered wrote:michlaw wrote:I always get the feeling than Penn is more closely aligned with the schools ahead of it that the ones behind it.
Twist: Michlaw is OP's father.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:12 pm
by matterhorn
Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:13 pm
by Nebby
matterhorn wrote:Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Hopefully Boalt offers you something. I think Boalt $$ would be your best shot at your goals
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:53 pm
by rpupkin
Nebby wrote:matterhorn wrote:Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Hopefully Boalt offers you something. I think Boalt $$ would be your best shot at your goals
True, but Boalttt, like Michigan, is an unprestigious state school.
Neither carries the special prestige of an elite Ivy like...Cornell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGy_asxL2U
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:09 pm
by curry1
rpupkin wrote:Nebby wrote:matterhorn wrote:Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Hopefully Boalt offers you something. I think Boalt $$ would be your best shot at your goals
True, but Boalttt, like Michigan, is an unprestigious state school.
Neither carries the special prestige of an elite Ivy like...Cornell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGy_asxL2U
Well, at least it isn't P.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:17 pm
by Clemenceau
curry1 wrote:rpupkin wrote:Nebby wrote:matterhorn wrote:Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Hopefully Boalt offers you something. I think Boalt $$ would be your best shot at your goals
True, but Boalttt, like Michigan, is an unprestigious state school.
Neither carries the special prestige of an elite Ivy like...Cornell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGy_asxL2U
Well, at least it isn't P.
Yeah they never really recovered since the sandusky/joe pa thing
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:20 pm
by curry1
Clemenceau wrote:curry1 wrote:rpupkin wrote:Nebby wrote:matterhorn wrote:Nebby wrote:Tell your parents to triple their assistance if they want their kid to go to an Ivy
Trust me if I could, I would. I don't know why they're so obsessed with the school to be honest, it's not like we're talking about Harvard.
Hopefully Boalt offers you something. I think Boalt $$ would be your best shot at your goals
True, but Boalttt, like Michigan, is an unprestigious state school.
Neither carries the special prestige of an elite Ivy like...Cornell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGy_asxL2U
Well, at least it isn't P.
Yeah they never really recovered since the sandusky/joe pa thing
Or Trump extolling their graduates' virtues.
Re: Michigan ($$$) vs. Cornell ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) vs. Penn ($$) vs. Berkeley (?)
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:14 pm
by michlaw
orangered wrote:
michlaw wrote:
I always get the feeling than Penn is more closely aligned with the schools ahead of it that the ones behind it.
Twist: Michlaw is OP's father.
Too funny. I was an analyst at JP Morgan before law school. The Penn reputational benefits might have had more to do with Wharton than their law school, but it was often regarded by human resource management as being in the same class as HYSC.