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Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:28 pm**

Having a hard time deciding on what I should do this year, so I thought I would ask for some input.

Stats: 171/3.99 (majored in microbiology, if anyone cares)

Career goals: Really want to work in public interest/government. My dream job would be doing environmental work, but I know this is pretty much the ultimate unicorn job, so I'm definitely not banking on this outcome. Also an unrealistic goal, but I'm very interested in the DOJ honors program. I really can't emphasize enough how much I don't want to do BigLaw, but I also know that a lot of students go in with PI expectations and still end up going the BL route.

Edit: paying with loans

Options I'm considering:

Harvard: Sticker (don't have my financial aid info yet, but I'm not expecting anything substantial)

Cornell: CoA: $104,00

Thoughts: I know the CoA of H is outrageous, but I'm still leaning towards it. I really love the LRAP (LIPP) for a few reasons: more flexible with qualifying employment, not connected to IBR, and there's no mandatory amount of time you have to be on the program. H is definitely my dream school, but I'm worried that I'm being too risky taking out such big loans.

If I took the Cornell route, it seems like my best move would be to go BL and try to pay my loans down as quickly as possible with the hopes of getting back into PI at some point. Like I said earlier, I don't really like that idea.

I feel like I had a pretty weird cycle. I applied super later, so I assume that's what did it for me. Had a couple of other offers, but I didn't think they were good enough to warrant consideration. I've thought about reapplying, although I'm pretty hesitant about the idea. My main concern is that I may lose my H offer without getting anything else better. Kind of feels like a big risk to me.

What would you guys do in my situation?

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:03 pm**

Harvard. I liked the people at Cornell a lot but Harvard opens doors on a different scale. I think I actually saw a unicorn here once but then again maybe not.

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:05 pm**

Harvard or re-apply. If Cornell was free it would be worth considering, but not at that cost when you can go to H. Cornell also isn't a very PI focused school. I personally would pay sticker for HYS, but that's a personal decision that you'll have to decide for yourself. If you don't want to pay up for Harvard, I'd suggest re-applying and aiming for a large scholarship at one of the lower T13 schools. I'm surprised you don't have better options, applying earlier should help a lot

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:08 pm**

ProfPasteur wrote: I feel like I had a pretty weird cycle. I applied super later, so I assume that's what did it for me. Had a couple of other offers, but I didn't think they were good enough to warrant consideration. I've thought about reapplying, although I'm pretty hesitant about the idea. My main concern is that I may lose my H offer without getting anything else better. Kind of feels like a big risk to me.

But that's kind of circular, isn't it? If you want to go to Harvard at sticker, then go to Harvard at sticker. But if you realize that's not a prudent choice, then you should of course apply next cycle. If you apply early, it's very likely that your 3.99/171 will get you significant merit aid from several T14 schools. You'll have more options next year, even if HLS doesn't accept you next time around.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:25 pm**

I'd recommend reapplying unless you are set on going to Harvard, I have similar numbers and applied very early in cycle in October, KJD, and was able to get substantial money from a few schools. I don't think you'd lose Harvard next time around, especially if you get a year of work experience.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:24 pm**

I am not telling you anything that isn't obvious. You are 25th LSAT and 75th+ GPA. Fine numbers indeed but still about a 50%-60% chance of admission if you reapply. A risk worth taking? I do think people underestimate the value of applying early and that you will get better offers from non HYS schools.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:28 pm**

eph wrote:I am not telling you anything that isn't obvious. You are 25th LSAT and 75th+ GPA. Fine numbers indeed but still about a 50%-60% chance of admission if you reapply. A risk worth taking? I do think people underestimate the value of applying early and that you will get better offers from non HYS schools.

Can't you defer and reapply, or are there rules against that sort of thing?

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:30 pm**

lawlorbust wrote:
eph wrote:I am not telling you anything that isn't obvious. You are 25th LSAT and 75th+ GPA. Fine numbers indeed but still about a 50%-60% chance of admission if you reapply. A risk worth taking? I do think people underestimate the value of applying early and that you will get better offers from non HYS schools.
Can't you defer and reapply, or are there rules against that sort of thing?

there are. Usually you can defer and attend that school a year later, or decline and reapply. You can't do both and if the school you deferred finds out you're applying elsewhere during your deferral year (which they can easily do) they will rescind your acceptance.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:48 pm**

I don’t think either of these are particularly great options, so my vote is that you should reapply next cycle and see if you can get more money somewhere. Unless you have someone chipping in a lot of cash for Harvard, my personal opinion is that you’d be wiser to leverage your numbers into minimal debt at a lower T14 – which is doable with your LSAT/GPA

Between the two existing options, Harvard is probably the better choice. Seems like you would probably have a better shot at BigFed/DoJ positions with a Harvard degree, though I don’t actually have any stats to back that claim up. But more importantly, Harvard gives you LIPP.

With $100k debt at Cornell, odds are you’re going to be sucked into BigLaw because the money will just be too good to pass up. Where you go from there is largely dependent on you, not your degree; but just understand that you’re going to spend several years in a high-stress job that you admittedly don’t want for an end-goal that might not happen. Seems like a pretty big gamble. With sticker debt at Harvard, you’re still going to cry yourself to sleep over the debt, but LIPP would make it plausible to take a non-BigLaw job and the name/alumni network probably gives you an edge for the type of work you’re interested in.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:09 pm**

I think this choice depends on your commitment to govt/PI. If you're absolutely dead set on it, then I'd say H is a fine call. But if you're anything short of fully committed to govt/PI, you should reapply. That H degree won't feel nearly as special if you end up on the big law train with 1/4 mil in debt.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:56 pm**

I feel like a Dillard or a Darrow should be on the table with those numbers.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:38 pm**

Yeah wait, what's your scholarship at cornell? 150k?

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:31 pm**

ProfPasteur wrote:Having a hard time deciding on what I should do this year, so I thought I would ask for some input.

Stats: 171/3.99 (majored in microbiology, if anyone cares)

Career goals: Really want to work in public interest/government. My dream job would be doing environmental work, but I know this is pretty much the ultimate unicorn job, so I'm definitely not banking on this outcome. Also an unrealistic goal, but I'm very interested in the DOJ honors program. I really can't emphasize enough how much I don't want to do BigLaw, but I also know that a lot of students go in with PI expectations and still end up going the BL route.

Edit: paying with loans

Options I'm considering:

Harvard: Sticker (don't have my financial aid info yet, but I'm not expecting anything substantial)

Cornell: CoA: $104,00

Thoughts: I know the CoA of H is outrageous, but I'm still leaning towards it. I really love the LRAP (LIPP) for a few reasons: more flexible with qualifying employment, not connected to IBR, and there's no mandatory amount of time you have to be on the program. H is definitely my dream school, but I'm worried that I'm being too risky taking out such big loans.

If I took the Cornell route, it seems like my best move would be to go BL and try to pay my loans down as quickly as possible with the hopes of getting back into PI at some point. Like I said earlier, I don't really like that idea.

I feel like I had a pretty weird cycle. I applied super later, so I assume that's what did it for me. Had a couple of other offers, but I didn't think they were good enough to warrant consideration. I've thought about reapplying, although I'm pretty hesitant about the idea. My main concern is that I may lose my H offer without getting anything else better. Kind of feels like a big risk to me.

What would you guys do in my situation?

Are those really your only two choices? To echo what a lot of people have said, those are both bad choices to do PI/government. I would sit out and reapply more broadly in the fall.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:44 am**

Harvard is never on sale. It costs what it costs. The need based aid is excellent as is the LRAP so they do a very very good job covering the financial extremes. Few each year face your decision. They accept around 920 and around 560 attend with maybe 10-20 taking deferrals. You might guess that of the 360 that go to Yale or Stanford the vast majority of those were also accepted at Harvard. So in reality how many people turn down Harvard who do not go to Yale or Stanford or get a named scholarship at CCN. For what it is worth I turned down a couple of named to attend H and don't regret it for a second. This is true for many here. Amazing experience. Think about it nearly 150 matriculates had 3.95+ and 175+ so figure they had a lot of alternatives. Of course their personal financial situations may have been different than yours. Good luck with your decision and congrats on your excellent work.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:04 pm**

eph wrote:Harvard is never on sale. It costs what it costs. The need based aid is excellent as is the LRAP so they do a very very good job covering the financial extremes. Few each year face your decision. They accept around 920 and around 560 attend with maybe 10-20 taking deferrals. You might guess that of the 360 that go to Yale or Stanford the vast majority of those were also accepted at Harvard. So in reality how many people turn down Harvard who do not go to Yale or Stanford or get a named scholarship at CCN. For what it is worth I turned down a couple of named to attend H and don't regret it for a second. This is true for many here. Amazing experience. Think about it nearly 150 matriculates had 3.95+ and 175+ so figure they had a lot of alternatives. Of course their personal financial situations may have been different than yours. Good luck with your decision and congrats on your excellent work.

What's it like to work as an HLS adcom? Hope your office has a heater

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:14 pm**

jbagelboy wrote:
eph wrote:Harvard is never on sale. It costs what it costs. The need based aid is excellent as is the LRAP so they do a very very good job covering the financial extremes. Few each year face your decision. They accept around 920 and around 560 attend with maybe 10-20 taking deferrals. You might guess that of the 360 that go to Yale or Stanford the vast majority of those were also accepted at Harvard. So in reality how many people turn down Harvard who do not go to Yale or Stanford or get a named scholarship at CCN. For what it is worth I turned down a couple of named to attend H and don't regret it for a second. This is true for many here. Amazing experience. Think about it nearly 150 matriculates had 3.95+ and 175+ so figure they had a lot of alternatives. Of course their personal financial situations may have been different than yours. Good luck with your decision and congrats on your excellent work.
What's it like to work as an HLS adcom? Hope your office has a heater

Seriously. Great you're happy with your choice but you are way over the top here.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:18 pm**

Thanks for the replies, everyone! Still not sure what I'm going to do, but I appreciate the advice. Definitely have some more thinking to do.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:01 pm**

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:08 pm**

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:19 pm**

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm**

scottyboy wrote:
zeglo wrote:
scottyboy wrote:Do you think someone with a 3.8, 175 LSAT could get a Darrow?
Well who else would?
I don't know, maybe a 3.9 is needed or something....

I had the same LSAT and a much higher GPA and I didn't get a Darrow (or any other T14 named full). But I was K-JD and applied late.

Once you're at the 75ths, work experience and timing matter more than numbers for the named schollies.

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:51 pm**

jbagelboy wrote:
eph wrote:Harvard is never on sale. It costs what it costs. The need based aid is excellent as is the LRAP so they do a very very good job covering the financial extremes. Few each year face your decision. They accept around 920 and around 560 attend with maybe 10-20 taking deferrals. You might guess that of the 360 that go to Yale or Stanford the vast majority of those were also accepted at Harvard. So in reality how many people turn down Harvard who do not go to Yale or Stanford or get a named scholarship at CCN. For what it is worth I turned down a couple of named to attend H and don't regret it for a second. This is true for many here. Amazing experience. Think about it nearly 150 matriculates had 3.95+ and 175+ so figure they had a lot of alternatives. Of course their personal financial situations may have been different than yours. Good luck with your decision and congrats on your excellent work.
What's it like to work as an HLS adcom? Hope your office has a heater

I'm not sure what you're implying, but Cambridge, MA is gorgeous all year round. But the fantastic weather only barely cracks the top 25 reasons to pick The Harvard Law School. (Comes just after having five sitting SCOTUS justices having attended your school. Talk about unicorn jobs.) HTH.

bretby wrote:Are those really your only two choices? To echo what a lot of people have said, those are both bad choices to do PI/government. I would sit out and reapply more broadly in the fall.

Seriously now, is it? None of HYS gives any merit aid, and there isn't a clear advantage or disadvantage between these three schools for PI work. I'm no expert on making it in PI, but is your contention that the only "non-bad" choice would be to attend a T14 on a full/near-full scholarship? That seems ... overblown to me.

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:19 pm**

lawlorbust wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
eph wrote:Harvard is never on sale. It costs what it costs. The need based aid is excellent as is the LRAP so they do a very very good job covering the financial extremes. Few each year face your decision. They accept around 920 and around 560 attend with maybe 10-20 taking deferrals. You might guess that of the 360 that go to Yale or Stanford the vast majority of those were also accepted at Harvard. So in reality how many people turn down Harvard who do not go to Yale or Stanford or get a named scholarship at CCN. For what it is worth I turned down a couple of named to attend H and don't regret it for a second. This is true for many here. Amazing experience. Think about it nearly 150 matriculates had 3.95+ and 175+ so figure they had a lot of alternatives. Of course their personal financial situations may have been different than yours. Good luck with your decision and congrats on your excellent work.
What's it like to work as an HLS adcom? Hope your office has a heater
I'm not sure what you're implying, but Cambridge, MA is gorgeous all year round. But the fantastic weather only barely cracks the top 25 reasons to pick The Harvard Law School. (Comes just after having five sitting SCOTUS justices having attended your school. Talk about unicorn jobs.) HTH.

bretby wrote:Are those really your only two choices? To echo what a lot of people have said, those are both bad choices to do PI/government. I would sit out and reapply more broadly in the fall.
Seriously now, is it? None of HYS gives any merit aid, and there isn't a clear advantage or disadvantage between these three schools for PI work. I'm no expert on making it in PI, but is your contention that the only "non-bad" choice would be to attend a T14 on a full/near-full scholarship? That seems ... overblown to me.

Lol. You can't even joke about cambridge weather with a straight face.

Posted: **Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:57 pm**

eph wrote:Harvard. I liked the people at Cornell a lot but Harvard opens doors on a different scale. I think I actually saw a unicorn here once but then again maybe not.

Posted: **Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:32 am**

jbagelboy wrote:Lol. You can't even joke about cambridge weather with a straight face.

Another underrated point about Harvard: Cambridge/Somerville has one of the top-10 brunch scenes in the country (maybe the world?) BUT is still hyped by Lonely Planet and other reputable travel mags as still having an upward trajectory and being poised for another breakout year. Counterintuitive, but think along the lines of Kirkland & Ellis LLP.

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