Top Law Schools

Hey All,

I am having a tough time choosing between these two schools. Would love your opinion on how to approach this. My current story is this:

My husband is a lawyer based in D.C. and at some point after law school, D.C. will be my market. I am choosing between U. Iowa Law, a top 20 school, and UNC Law, ranked at 38 and also my alma matter.

Both have given me good scholarships but while U Iowa is ranked higher it lacks in location, while, UNC law is ranked lower, has a better location to D.C.

Iowa law is realistically the better school, but is it worth giving up location for ranking, OR giving up ranking for location when it comes to job opportunities in DC. I am not familiar with either school's reputation in terms of DC law firms.

Would appreciate your thoughts as I have no idea which one to choose at this point!

**retaking the lsat is not an option**

KarmenSanDiego wrote:Hey All,

I am having a tough time choosing between these two schools. Would love your opinion on how to approach this. My current story is this:

My husband is a lawyer based in D.C. and at some point after law school, D.C. will be my market. I am choosing between U. Iowa Law, a top 20 school, and UNC Law, ranked at 38 and also my alma matter.

Both have given me good scholarships but while U Iowa is ranked higher it lacks in location, while, UNC law is ranked lower, has a better location to D.C.

Iowa law is realistically the better school, but is it worth giving up location for ranking, OR giving up ranking for location when it comes to job opportunities in DC. I am not familiar with either school's reputation in terms of DC law firms.

Would appreciate your thoughts as I have no idea which one to choose at this point!

The smartest thing would be to just get 5 points higher on the LSAT so you can be with your husband during law school, and have a realistic chance of getting a job in DC. Your odds of getting a job in DC are under 50-50 with both of these schools. If retake isn't an option the next question would be your openness to exploring a divorce or some way to ensure funding for 5-6 years down the line. It's like the old saying - you can always redo marriage, but an LSAT score is forever.

also a UNC alum - I have always been really impressed with how fabulous the faculty are at UNC Law and I'm sure if you reached out they would help you get that info. knowing the # of UNC alumni in DC I would be willing to be they place decently for a school at that rank - even if UNC is a more 'regional' school I don't think DC is outside that region.

don't konw anything about Iowa, but I would reach out to UNC and ask!

The rankings of these schools are pretty irrelevant. One being ranked in the 20's and one being ranked in the 30's means nothing. They're both strong regional schools. You'll most likely get bombarded with re-take and get into T14 or GW if you want to end up in DC (which is probably the correct response). However, if you're hell bent on choosing between these two schools, UNC put 19/232 of its 2015 grads in DC, while Iowa put 5/176 of its grads in DC, so UNC would probably give you a better shot than Iowa.

Retake for Duke or UVA

Why not have your husband move to Iowa or UNC? It's much easier to get a job than it is to get into law school. If he loved you he'd be willing to leave the job and move to Iowa. The DC and Iowa markets are virtually interchangeable so any connections he has in DC will be portable in Iowa. At least 2/3 of lawyers who work in DC commute from Iowa daily.

.

Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

laliforevar wrote:also a UNC alum - I have always been really impressed with how fabulous the faculty are at UNC Law and I'm sure if you reached out they would help you get that info. knowing the # of UNC alumni in DC I would be willing to be they place decently for a school at that rank - even if UNC is a more 'regional' school I don't think DC is outside that region.

don't konw anything about Iowa, but I would reach out to UNC and ask!

Thanks for your kind input Laliforever! Ironically, the Director of Career Services at UNC law was the founder of the Career Services at Iowa Law and when I approached him on feed back he did say similar things about Graduates from UNC law in DC. However, bearing in mind the conflict of interest, he didn't give me much on Iowa.

I'm glad to know that you know a # of UNC grads in D.C.

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

When you say "many", what do you mean?

Because when I say that "many" Columbia/NYU students end up at big firms in New York, I mean well over half of the student body at each school. I don't think you can say the same thing about UNC or Iowa.

fishpaste1 wrote:The rankings of these schools are pretty irrelevant. One being ranked in the 20's and one being ranked in the 30's means nothing. They're both strong regional schools. You'll most likely get bombarded with re-take and get into T14 or GW if you want to end up in DC (which is probably the correct response). However, if you're hell bent on choosing between these two schools, UNC put 19/232 of its 2015 grads in DC, while Iowa put 5/176 of its grads in DC, so UNC would probably give you a better shot than Iowa.

Thanks Fishpast1! Were those stats from their ABA report? I wish I could convince myself that I like GW enough to go to it, but truth is I wasn't at all impressed by that school when I visited: their faculty were drier than a pruned grape and totally killed my interest in GW. I would only consider Georgetown Law (which I am currently wait-listed at) above my current two options considering thats the only one paying sticker price for.

thelincolnlawyer wrote:

jrass wrote:Why not have your husband move to Iowa or UNC? It's much easier to get a job than it is to get into law school. If he loved you he'd be willing to leave the job and move to Iowa. The DC and Iowa markets are virtually interchangeable so any connections he has in DC will be portable in Iowa. At least 2/3 of lawyers who work in DC commute from Iowa daily.

Lol the troll is strong with this one.

It really is. LOL. smh...

cavalier1138 wrote:

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

When you say "many", what do you mean?

Because when I say that "many" Columbia/NYU students end up at big firms in New York, I mean well over half of the student body at each school. I don't think you can say the same thing about UNC or Iowa.

The scope here isn't the t-14 - its a given that "many" of them went there. Outside of the T-14, what I mean by many is that compared to the same range of schools there are many profiles of attorney's I have come across on various big law firm websites that went to UNC/Iowa Law.

I am more concerned with how they got there, both from the firm perspective and the law student.

urbanist11 wrote:Retake for Duke or UVA

Definitely not an option.

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

When you say "many", what do you mean?

Because when I say that "many" Columbia/NYU students end up at big firms in New York, I mean well over half of the student body at each school. I don't think you can say the same thing about UNC or Iowa.

The scope here isn't the t-14 - its a given that "many" of them went there. Outside of the T-14, what I mean by many is that compared to the same range of schools there are many profiles of attorney's I have come across on various big law firm websites that went to UNC/Iowa Law.

I am more concerned with how they got there, both from the firm perspective and the law student.

Then they pretty much all got there by being in the top of their class.

The first reply you got was correct: if you want to work in DC, then your best option is to retake and get the score you need to place yourself in the DC market. Going to either of these schools and thinking that "networking" is going to make the difference is a huge mistake.

READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

When you say "many", what do you mean?

Because when I say that "many" Columbia/NYU students end up at big firms in New York, I mean well over half of the student body at each school. I don't think you can say the same thing about UNC or Iowa.

The scope here isn't the t-14 - its a given that "many" of them went there. Outside of the T-14, what I mean by many is that compared to the same range of schools there are many profiles of attorney's I have come across on various big law firm websites that went to UNC/Iowa Law.

I am more concerned with how they got there, both from the firm perspective and the law student.

You could speak to an alumni who made the change, or you could speak to somebody without a college education who has a 10 million dollar portfolio after winning the powerball jackpot. Either way, you'll get practically the same information.

Having gone to undergrad at Iowa, Iowa City's only saving grace is its bar/social scene and intellectual culture. If you do not associate with either of those communities, then you might very well make yourself miserable by living there for three years. If it isn't absolutely freezing then it will be miserably hot with like 3 weeks of nice spring/fall weather in between.

It's obviously not worth making a decision based on those intangibles, but then again, it's not like choosing Iowa or UNC and trying to get DC big law is any less arbitrary.

As others have said, rankings (at least once you get down to the T20) don't matter. I have no idea where Iowa's rise into the top 20 is even coming from. It's not like Des Moines hires more than ~15 summer associates AS A WHOLE for an entire summer, Chicago big law is incredibly difficult to land (two T14's in the city), other midwestern markets have regional schools in the city (e.g. Minnesota --> Minneapolis; WUSTL --> St. Louis, etc), and it doesn't have the big law placement for students to land NYC/other east coast markets. So despite its rise in the rankings and respectable employment stats, I have no clue where or how Iowa grads are getting jobs.

KarmenSanDiego wrote:

WaitersIsland wrote:Don't go to either of these schools expecting to land a job in DC. The odds are overwhelmingly against you at both of them.

I don't think thats true at all. There are many UNC Law/Iowa Law at big firms in NY and DC. Given, they probably had to fight for their own connections and not landing jobs through OCI, Its entirely possible.

The folks who end up in DC out of UNC are generally LR folks towards the top of the class. These are largely people who are competitive for federal clerkships. A few folks a little outside of that profile manage to land a job in DC, but it's by no means common—and now we're talking people who are top 25% rather than top 5–10%. For purposes of getting to DC, networking is pretty meaningless if you aren't where you need to be in the class. There might be some jobs in DC where that's less the case, but you're going to be competing with students from UVA, Georgetown, GW, GM, W&M, American, Catholic, UMD, and the rest of the T14 for DC jobs. If you wanted to work in NC I'd tell you something different.

Don't do it. Three years of life/tuition/opportunity cost, while being away from your SO, for a law degree that won't get you where want to go is not worth it.

A poster here yesterday goes to GULC and was saying how getting DC biglaw from there is still quite difficult. I believe they specifically said you should be top ~10% to bid heavily DC with any degree of comfort. And that's from georgetown.

Clemenceau wrote:A poster here yesterday goes to GULC and was saying how getting DC biglaw from there is still quite difficult. I believe they specifically said you should be top ~10% to bid heavily DC with any degree of comfort. And that's from georgetown.

This is a good point, and it reminds me of something I should add to my earlier post. In addition to what I wrote earlier, I have seen folks at UNC with excellent credentials (LR & top 10%) struggle to land a job in DC. Unless you completely kill it (be one of the top 10 students in the class [not top 10%]), you wouldn't be able to count on DC.

UNC or Iowa for DC firm jobs? Seriously? Unless you're talking about small firms that don't pay well, this is among the the most asinine threads I've seen here in a while. Retake for Georgetown with money. Otherwise don't go.

unc will be viewed better than iowa up and down the east coast. its not a T14, but UNC def holds its own against non-T14 schools.