Top Law Schools

It's not $80k + the biz. It's 80k combined

Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

bmathers wrote:It's not $80k + the biz. It's 80k combined

Even still.....do you like your current gig/side business? At the very least, are they ok? If so, don't go to law school. You are unlikely to land a job making 80K out of law school.

Not to mention, in the three years you'd be in law school, you could probably garner some sort of promotion/raise in whatever this other gig is. So let's say you'd be pulling in 95K. (A conservative estimate, I think, if you assume OP gets a promotion that nets 10K more a year plus small COL raises).

wolfintally wrote:If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine.

Damn, is this where all those unemployed law grads messed up?

What's with the term "official visit"? You're not an athletic recruit.

TakeItToTrial wrote:What's with the term "official visit"? You're not an athletic recruit.

How do we know he isn't a professional lazy river pond racer??

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

bmathers wrote:

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

On average, Akron grads make $60k, assuming they are employed. The median (expected outcome) is $52k. If you're fortunate enough to perform better than 75% of your peers, your salary will be $70k.

Source: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/akron/sals/2014/

bmathers wrote:

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

Yes, the majority of us posters are kids in their early 20s who know nothing about life after law school. Spot on. Yet you're the one who concluded Akron's law school would be a good fit for you because of their gym, night life, and a 30-60 minute sales pitch by the Dean.

bmathers wrote:

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

Or people who can read an ABA 509 report. Those people post here, too.

Lol OPs job is best/ good case scenario for many people looking to go in-house after a year or two at biglaw

cavalier1138 wrote: I will say this, however. I guarantee that if you want to do anything other than work at your dad's firm, keeping it as a back-up plan will absolutely destroy any chances you have of performing as well as you could. When you have a back-up plan, you have far less incentive to work hard and put in any real effort, compared to your classmates who are relying on their grades for job placement. So if you don't want to end up doing your back-up plan, you need to not have one.

Wow, I could not disagree with this more. I had a back-up plan while in law school and I still have that back-up plan now and it has provided me with nothing but comfort. I didn't slack because of it, during or after law school.

Also, what do you want OP to do, tell his dad to fuck off?

Holly Golightly wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote: I will say this, however. I guarantee that if you want to do anything other than work at your dad's firm, keeping it as a back-up plan will absolutely destroy any chances you have of performing as well as you could. When you have a back-up plan, you have far less incentive to work hard and put in any real effort, compared to your classmates who are relying on their grades for job placement. So if you don't want to end up doing your back-up plan, you need to not have one.

Wow, I could not disagree with this more. I had a back-up plan while in law school and I still have that back-up plan now and it has provided me with nothing but comfort. I didn't slack because of it, during or after law school.

Also, what do you want OP to do, tell his dad to fuck off?

Not every law student is motivated by jobs and money. For some people it's prestige, and for some people it's a need to feel like they did well. Personally I know I would not have tried if I had a job lined up, because I knew I could pull median at any law school without much effort, but also knew median wouldn't give me great odds in this economy. I'm also somebody that never tried in high school or college, because the incentive structure only came into play when I decided to go to law school. Most people have a more holistic perspective, and try for dozens of reasons other than employment.

Official visit? Thinking about playin some ball there?

Holly Golightly wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote: I will say this, however. I guarantee that if you want to do anything other than work at your dad's firm, keeping it as a back-up plan will absolutely destroy any chances you have of performing as well as you could. When you have a back-up plan, you have far less incentive to work hard and put in any real effort, compared to your classmates who are relying on their grades for job placement. So if you don't want to end up doing your back-up plan, you need to not have one.

Wow, I could not disagree with this more. I had a back-up plan while in law school and I still have that back-up plan now and it has provided me with nothing but comfort. I didn't slack because of it, during or after law school.

Also, what do you want OP to do, tell his dad to fuck off?

Good for you. The reality is that having a fall-back practically guarantees that you will end up using it at some point in your life. That's not a good or bad thing. It's just how people work.

And I don't know why you think that the two options in life are becoming your father or telling your father to go to hell. It is, believe it or not, entirely possible to have a good family relationship with your parents and not follow in their exact footsteps. Unless your parents are terrible people.

What's an Akron?

cavalier1138 wrote: Good for you. The reality is that having a fall-back practically guarantees that you will end up using it at some point in your life. That's not a good or bad thing. It's just how people work.

And I don't know why you think that the two options in life are becoming your father or telling your father to go to hell. It is, believe it or not, entirely possible to have a good family relationship with your parents and not follow in their exact footsteps. Unless your parents are terrible people.

I highly doubt it's statistically true that having a fall-back option "practically guarantees" that you'll end up using it.

And I just don't see the point in OP telling his dad before he even goes to law school that he doesn't want his firm as a fall-back option. That seems like a really terrible idea. (Especially when looking at schools with ~50% employment rates.)

Why do people like OP bother asking questions they don't want the answer to? It seems like everyone that asks a question where the answer isn't completely obvious about choosing a law school is just looking for a confirmation. Everyone on here offers 100% credible points backed up a myriad of stats. Anecdotal evidence such as "you knew someone who went there" and "the dean said...." is not worth too much.


Enjoy the lazy river. Admittedly it is a pretty sick perk.

Ron Mexico wrote:Official visit? Thinking about playin some ball there?

Thinking about it, but I fear my eligibility is long since dried up. Seton Hall allowed a grad transfer to play hoops during his 1L year last year and have a year of law school for free. I can't imagine how crazy that year must have been for him.

ronanOgara wrote:

bmathers wrote:

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

Yes, the majority of us posters are kids in their early 20s who know nothing about life after law school. Spot on. Yet you're the one who concluded Akron's law school would be a good fit for you because of their gym, night life, and a 30-60 minute sales pitch by the Dean.

Please find me a post where I ever reached such a conclusion.

bmathers wrote:

ronanOgara wrote:

bmathers wrote:

wolfintally wrote:Op, most of the respondents on this site have no clue about the life of a run of the mill attorney. If you can interview without drooling and build a network you will be fine. You might end up in areas of law like criminal defense, workers comp, or foreclosure defense. You very likely will not make a 160k starting out but you can make pretty good money in 3-5 years (80-140k). If you want to work for Jones Day do not go to a local law school. The legal market at least in my area of the country has changed dramatically for the better from just three years ago (i.e. small/mid firms and in turn governments are hiring). If you can and have the opportunity to get into a better school do it! This is not to discourage you from trying to get into a better program but every time I look on this site it seems reality is completely blown out of proportion on here.

I take this site as a grain of salt. I have family in the biz (including one who hires), and it seems that opinions on this board are blown out of proportion, and/or primarily kids in their early-20s, still in law school, making comments pertaining to life after law school.

Yes, the majority of us posters are kids in their early 20s who know nothing about life after law school. Spot on. Yet you're the one who concluded Akron's law school would be a good fit for you because of their gym, night life, and a 30-60 minute sales pitch by the Dean.

Please find me a post where I ever reached such a conclusion.

You spent a whole paragraph of your opening pitch for Akron discussing their facilities and the night life (and now that I read more closely, maybe making a veiled reference to strippers?). This post has become famous as a literal laundry-list of things that do not matter in a law school.

Strippers???? Lol, are you serious?

Reread that post. I said, verbatim, that I am looking at Nova BC of the location and that Akron was not a serious player. I said that I came away more impressed than I thought that I would be, and that I think that it will be on the rise, but never once did I say I now wanted to go there. Not once.

And sorry if I gave reference to more than a 504 report, or w/e those are called. Damn, I can't imagine the serious life some of y'all may be living... I couldn't do it

I did say that there were some cute girls... unless if the only cute girls that you can talk to are strippers, I did not reference strippers lol

bmathers wrote:Strippers???? Lol, are you serious?

Reread that post. I said, verbatim, that I am looking at Nova BC of the location and that Akron was not a serious player. I said that I came away more impressed than I thought that I would be, and that I think that it will be on the rise, but never once did I say I now wanted to go there. Not once.

And sorry if I gave reference to more than a 504 report, or w/e those are called. Damn, I can't imagine the serious life some of y'all may be living... I couldn't do it

I did say that there were some cute girls... unless if the only cute girls that you can talk to are strippers, I did not reference strippers lol

My bad. I didn't realize that "Night life was fun, with plenty of talent, if we're on the same page," referred to the local stand-up scene.

That aside, what an inane set of criteria to base your professional education on. I guess I'm just living a "serious life", but I give a shit about whether or not my law school is going to get me a good job when I graduate. It might be because my daddy isn't going to give me a guaranteed job if my school can't. It could be because I realize that half of a class not being employed as lawyers is a bad thing. But really, it's probably because I'm just too darn serious.

cavalier1138 wrote:

bmathers wrote:Strippers???? Lol, are you serious?

Reread that post. I said, verbatim, that I am looking at Nova BC of the location and that Akron was not a serious player. I said that I came away more impressed than I thought that I would be, and that I think that it will be on the rise, but never once did I say I now wanted to go there. Not once.

And sorry if I gave reference to more than a 504 report, or w/e those are called. Damn, I can't imagine the serious life some of y'all may be living... I couldn't do it

I did say that there were some cute girls... unless if the only cute girls that you can talk to are strippers, I did not reference strippers lol

My bad. I didn't realize that "Night life was fun, with plenty of talent, if we're on the same page," referred to the local stand-up scene.

That aside, what an inane set of criteria to base your professional education on. I guess I'm just living a "serious life", but I give a shit about whether or not my law school is going to get me a good job when I graduate. It might be because my daddy isn't going to give me a guaranteed job if my school can't. It could be because I realize that half of a class not being employed as lawyers is a bad thing. But really, it's probably because I'm just too darn serious.

All of that would be very relevant and legitimate if I indeed had said that I was planning to attend Akron. However, I have my geographic preference of the Philly area and am retaking on June 6th.

Should my post have read "the numbers are so undesirable that I stayed in my hotel and had a brutal time during my visit"? Seriously

And keep them coming. I haven't lived with my parents in over 10 years and moved to a new state on a whim without a job, lived out of a room in someone's house in the ghetto, built my own business, and have succeeded. But, yes, let's refer to the "daddy gives you" stuff