Columbia vs. GULC ($$) Forum

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Columbia
48
73%
Georgetown $$
18
27%
 
Total votes: 66

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TheKisSquared

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Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:55 am

Thank you everyone for your input! I have a lot more to think about but I wanted to remove things that were too identifying.
Last edited by TheKisSquared on Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

GreenEggs

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by GreenEggs » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:00 am

That's some decent money from GULC, don't see a real reason not to go with that option. If you're going to be debt financing sticker at CLS you'd need to be 100% sure you would have some LRAP-qualified position lined up, and you're not in that position. That's just way too much debt that could get in the way of what you might want to end up doing. GULC is just going to give you more flexibility
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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:18 am

DCfilterDC wrote:That's some decent money from GULC, don't see a real reason not to go with that option. If you're going to be debt financing sticker at CLS you'd need to be 100% sure you would have some LRAP-qualified position lined up, and you're not in that position. That's just way too much debt that could get in the way of what you might want to end up doing. GULC is just going to give you more flexibility
I don't have one lined up but I have worked in a civil rights firm (similar to PI) for the past three years and have shown a strong commitment. My current firm might even be eligible under Columbia's LRAP (though likely not). Maybe I'm naive but I''m not worried about landing a PI job after law school if that's what I want.

But it sounds like you (and judging by incoming poll results, most others) think that the debt is just too much of a risk for the small margin I might love something else?
edit:
Would you say GULC and Columbia are equivalent in helping me reach my career goals? if not, how much? how much is the difference in cost offsetting the difference in career outcomes?

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by GreenEggs » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:29 am

TheKisSquared wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That's some decent money from GULC, don't see a real reason not to go with that option. If you're going to be debt financing sticker at CLS you'd need to be 100% sure you would have some LRAP-qualified position lined up, and you're not in that position. That's just way too much debt that could get in the way of what you might want to end up doing. GULC is just going to give you more flexibility
I don't have one lined up but I have worked in a civil rights firm (similar to PI) for the past three years and have shown a strong commitment. My current firm might even be eligible under Columbia's LRAP (though likely not). Maybe I'm naive but I''m not worried about landing a PI job after law school if that's what I want.

But it sounds like you (and judging by incoming poll results, most others) think that the debt is just too much of a risk for the small margin I might love something else?
edit:
Would you say GULC and Columbia are equivalent in helping me reach my career goals? if not, how much? how much is the difference in cost offsetting the difference in career outcomes?
Yeah your current firm would likely qualify under CLS LRAP, but you'd have to confirm it with them. I'm a 1L at CLS, and while I think there's some bump, I think it's noticeable compared to some random regional school. I don't think it's worth an additional 150k over GULC. At the end of the day what will matter are all the opportunities you took in the field you want to go into. I think being in DC affords many opportunities and it's not like you're choosing between being in Durham or a major city.
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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by 20171203 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:03 pm

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:08 pm

thelincolnlawyer wrote:Isn't CLS's LRAP program also fully funded? That's a pretty major advantage IMO but I'm not sure if it's worth $150K more than GULC.
Yeah that's a major plus for me, but that's one of the questions I'm asking myself (and others) :?

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:43 pm

Voting poll lurkers - please chime in! :lol:

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somethingElse

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by somethingElse » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:47 pm

I'm not qualified to give you advice, nor am I intending to, but perhaps others can chime in if GULC's latest employment figures should play any role here? Check the employment thread for details.

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:12 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:I'm not qualified to give you advice, nor am I intending to, but perhaps others can chime in if GULC's latest employment figures should play any role here? Check the employment thread for details.
I literally just saw them and got some very severe chills. Those numbers are hard to parse for those not interested in BigLaw, but they also don't look great.

(Aside: I just typed 'buglaw' and wish I hadn't caught the typo :mrgreen:)

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Mockingbird42

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Mockingbird42 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:27 pm

:|
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TheRealSantaClaus

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheRealSantaClaus » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:28 pm

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jbagelboy

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by jbagelboy » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:01 pm

I would not go to GULC in this market.

It's tough for splitters. Idk. If you're fully PI committed I'd go CLS. Or do an mpa or anything other than law

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Mockingbird42 wrote: Personally, I would not be happy having to spend 10+ of my prime earning years ensuring that I never make enough money to stay qualified for LRAP, especially after reading some of the horror stories in other threads. Also, this is policy that could be easily end before your repayment is over.

Really, OP there are a lot of angles to approach this. My advice is to figure out all the paths that you would be happy with and do the following:
1. List them out and then write out your lifetime expected earnings, taking into account your expected debt.
2. Rank them and choose how you want to use that as a multiplier (Maybe rank 1 = a multiplier of 10, rank 2 = 9, rank 3 (bc you would be not nearly as happy with it) = 5).
3.Multiply each by the probability of this event occurring (here you can use the employment stats as a proxy).
This should get you your expected utility for each option and you should choose to pursue whichever number is highest. This method isn't perfect, but I found that it really helped me with self reflection. Seeing the actual numbers and the actual trade offs of each path and how much debt affected that was really important for me.
CLS doesn't have a cap (GULC does). CLS is also fully funded, so I'm not too concerned about those.

this is an interesting suggestion. I'll try my hand at it tomorrow probably
TheRealSantaClaus wrote: Well, based on their recent numbers and huge class size, a federal clerkship could be very difficult to obtain from GULC if things don't change.

I think this comes down to: what kind of PI are you seeking? Do you want to be a public defender, or are you looking at working for a high profile and competetive organization? GULC should be fine for the former, but CLS is going to give you a huge edge for everything else.

Sticker at Columbia is a rediculous amount of money though. Even with LRAP, make sure you do your research and plan accordingly!
Clerkship chance is a big deal and a point from GULC, definitely. I don't think PD is something I'm interested in. I'd rather be a prosecutor. As much as I like working with clients right now I think I'd find it alternately infuriating and heartbreaking.

yeeahahhahhhhh :shock:

(thank you all for your responses, they're helping with my thinking/realism)

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TheRealSantaClaus

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheRealSantaClaus » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:26 pm

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Bach-City » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:51 pm

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:53 pm

Bach-City wrote:I don't mean to derail here, but has Columbia released it's non-Butler/Hamilton aid yet? I'm admitted and haven't heard anything
come join the 'class of' thread! they've released some, but not all.

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:00 pm

TheRealSantaClaus wrote:
TheRealSantaClaus wrote: Well, based on their recent numbers and huge class size, a federal clerkship could be very difficult to obtain from GULC if things don't change.

I think this comes down to: what kind of PI are you seeking? Do you want to be a public defender, or are you looking at working for a high profile and competetive organization? GULC should be fine for the former, but CLS is going to give you a huge edge for everything else.

Sticker at Columbia is a rediculous amount of money though. Even with LRAP, make sure you do your research and plan accordingly!
Clerkship chance is a big deal and a point from GULC, definitely. I don't think PD is something I'm interested in. I'd rather be a prosecutor. As much as I like working with clients right now I think I'd find it alternately infuriating and heartbreaking.

yeeahahhahhhhh :shock:

(thank you all for your responses, they're helping with my thinking/realism)

What kind of prosecutor are we talking about here? I would think you if you wanted to work at a local office somewhere, you should be able to get a job relatively easily from GULC if you network well.

If you're interested in working as a US Attorney (or in any Bigfed position, for that matter), then it's going to be tough to land a job from either school. I would imagine though, that Columbia would put you in a much better position. You'll also probably face a lot less competition from your fellow students there than you would at GULC (notorious for having people gunning for Bigfed), though I'm not sure how much that really matters.
I'd love to work in an AG office (which I know if different) but hoping to explore different paths. this is where I get a little murky. I work in civil right now (obviously), which is great, but I do want to experience criminal. I don't think that's where I'll end up though, unless I really like it if I get a taste. I'm... very open to suggestions and direction on this, which is probably not a great discussion for this thread.

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Nebby » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:42 pm

National State Attorneys General Program @ CLS http://web.law.columbia.edu/attorneys-general

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Nebby » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:44 pm

This is a really, really hard choice. If you know you want to do PI, CLS is a great school with an amazing LRAP. There are mutliple people heading to "prestigious" DA offices, people heading to public defense, people heading to do enviro lit, people heading to orgs doing racial justice, women's rights, others doing DOJ/BigFed, and others going to direct service organizations

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TheKisSquared

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by TheKisSquared » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:47 pm

Nebby wrote:National State Attorneys General Program @ CLS http://web.law.columbia.edu/attorneys-general
!!!!
Thank you! This is a really great resource.

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Nachoo2019 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:09 am

I am not qualified to give advice on CLS vs GULC, but if CLS LRAP does not pay EVERYTHING I would consider looking at this thread on PSLF horror stories before you decide as well. There is a lot of great information on how difficult and ridiculous the PSLF process is.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=262264

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by GreenEggs » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:11 am

kwabedi wrote:I am not qualified to give advice on CLS vs GULC, but if CLS LRAP does not pay EVERYTHING I would consider looking at this thread on PSLF horror stories before you decide as well. There is a lot of great information on how difficult and ridiculous the PSLF process is.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=262264
CLS LRAP has nothing to do with PSLF. It pays "EVERYTHING"
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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by Nachoo2019 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:13 am

DCfilterDC wrote:
kwabedi wrote:I am not qualified to give advice on CLS vs GULC, but if CLS LRAP does not pay EVERYTHING I would consider looking at this thread on PSLF horror stories before you decide as well. There is a lot of great information on how difficult and ridiculous the PSLF process is.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=262264
CLS LRAP has nothing to do with PSLF. It pays "EVERYTHING"

Well I knew I should have bit my tongue before I posted that... my bad

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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by coldmonkey13 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:27 am

~
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Re: Columbia vs. GULC ($$)

Post by anonymous117 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:54 am

I don't feel well qualified to give this advice, but I would go with Columbia because as others have mentioned, in the employment numbers and current market, there's better security there. I think Columbia will be able to better help you reach your goals, and you'll either have a fantastic LRAP program to help you out or if you fall in love with transactional work, you'll have an open door to biglaw in NYC.

I think if you stick with PI, Columbia has the advantage because of their LRAP program. If you end up choosing a different type of law, Columbia has the advantage in that it seems you'll be more likely to land a great job. Yeah, you'll have a lot of debt, but say you come out of Georgetown and don't find a biglaw or equally high-salaried job? You'll still be sitting on $150k of debt.

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