Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$) Forum

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IdiotWind

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Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by IdiotWind » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Awards (over 3 years):
Chicago: $45,000
Penn: $105,000
Cornell: $150,000
WashU: Full tuition + 5k stipend

Estimated debt at repayment (using LST financial worksheets):
Chicago: $247,806
Penn: $162,250
Cornell: $126,612
WashU: $58,452

Not expecting help from parents, so loans will be taken out to cover everything not covered by scholarship. Not certain of career path, but probably not 10 years of PI. Could be interested in Big Law.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, I know there's a million of these threads this time of year but after a brief search I couldn't find one that quite matched my situation. Let me know if there's any more info you'd need.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by HYPSM » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:36 pm

Penn or Cornell (especially for BigLaw in NYC). Ask Penn for more money, though.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by existentialcrisis » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:36 pm

Where are you from, and where do you want to work? How "interested" would you estimate you are in biglaw?

I feel like this is probably either Cornell or WashU depending on your goals. If you just have generic NY Big Law goals, then Cornell with an 150k scholarship is a pretty solid outcome.

acr

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by acr » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:39 pm

Not Wash U.

Cornell is probably your best bet in my opinion, simply because it would be your lowest debt load. Chicago is an amazing school but I find it hard to justify 250K for it.

Some people on here will probably tell you Penn. I think it could go either way depending on how debt-averse you are, but I would personally lean toward Cornell.

Do you have a preference for big cities or small isolated college towns? Penn and Cornell are very different in this respect and if you have to be in a city then Penn is probably worth 40K more.

IdiotWind

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by IdiotWind » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:52 pm

To reply to a couple posts here:

I'm not certain of Big Law, but I could see it as a realistic path (especially if it would make repaying debt much easier). I have no preference re: city vs. rural setting; I grew up in a rural area, went to undergrad in a city, and would enjoy either setting. Penn is closer to home (eastern PA) but not that much farther from Cornell.

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IdiotWind

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by IdiotWind » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:54 pm

I guess another important question is: Is Penn worth ~$35k more in debt that Cornell?

acr

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by acr » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:58 pm

IdiotWind wrote:I guess another important question is: Is Penn worth ~$35k more in debt that Cornell?
I think Penn might be inherently worth more than Cornell. But again, the answer to this question depends on your priorities and career preferences.

If you want NYC big law, then you will likely obtain the same outcome from Penn than you will at Cornell. If you end up in NYC regardless, then there's no reason to spend 35K more on Penn.

If you would rather live in a big city with more access to job markets/networking, then Penn might be worth 35K more.

If you care about "prestige," then Penn might be worth 35K more.

It depends on how debt averse you are. Does the prospect of taking out loans make you cringe or do you care?

If you are simply looking for an outcome than probably not.

This is not a binary question in the sense that it either is or isn't. It depends.
Last edited by acr on Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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RZ5646

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by RZ5646 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:59 pm

IdiotWind wrote:Awards (over 3 years):
Chicago: $45,000
Penn: $105,000
Cornell: $150,000
WashU: Full tuition + 5k stipend

Estimated debt at repayment (using LST financial worksheets):
Chicago: $247,806
Penn: $162,250
Cornell: $126,612
WashU: $58,452

Not expecting help from parents, so loans will be taken out to cover everything not covered by scholarship. Not certain of career path, but probably not 10 years of PI. Could be interested in Big Law.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, I know there's a million of these threads this time of year but after a brief search I couldn't find one that quite matched my situation. Let me know if there's any more info you'd need.
How is WashU with a full ride and 5k stipend 60k? Surely you can reduce your annual cost of living to below 25k.

IdiotWind

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by IdiotWind » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:08 pm

^ Hey HAL

I used Room & Board and Misc. Personal Expenses from each school's sites. I'm sure I could live under that total too. WashU breakdown was as follows:
  • Room and board: $14,000
  • Books and supplies: $2,000
  • Other Personal Expenses: $5,400

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by existentialcrisis » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:10 pm

IdiotWind wrote:I guess another important question is: Is Penn worth ~$35k more in debt that Cornell?
I go to Penn and I don't really think so. NYC big law is by far the most likely outcome from either. Penn might give you a slightly better shot, but Cornell still places very, very well.

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Trippel

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by Trippel » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:26 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
IdiotWind wrote:I guess another important question is: Is Penn worth ~$35k more in debt that Cornell?
I go to Penn and I don't really think so. NYC big law is by far the most likely outcome from either. Penn might give you a slightly better shot, but Cornell still places very, very well.
I go to Cornell and also agree. Honestly, much of the T-14 just ends up at the same NYC firms. The results are almost interchangeable from most of these schools. I also think that TLS overhypes the difficulty of landing biglaw outside of NYC from Cornell and Penn. At least at Cornell, much of our class was set on NYC from day one. There are plenty of people at Cornell who resisted NYC and still found great biglaw jobs in other markets.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by IdiotWind » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:27 pm

If I'm drawn away from Big Law, would I be better off at Penn instead of Cornell because of prestige and job placement? Or would Cornell be better because of being less saddled with debt?

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Trippel

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by Trippel » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:35 pm

IdiotWind wrote:If I'm drawn away from Big Law, would I be better off at Penn instead of Cornell because of prestige and job placement? Or would Cornell be better because of being less saddled with debt?
I'm open to being corrected, but I really think the prestige is negligible in this case. Most employers don't think of the T-14 in same rigid tiers that TLS does. Your GPA will be the most important factor for a nice PI outcome at either of these schools, and I'm willing to bet that comparable class rank would yield comparable outcomes.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by existentialcrisis » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:37 pm

IdiotWind wrote:If I'm drawn away from Big Law, would I be better off at Penn instead of Cornell because of prestige and job placement? Or would Cornell be better because of being less saddled with debt?
Probably Cornell with less debt, unless you want to work in Philly or something. I don't think Penn really opens any non big law doors that Cornell doesn't, and probably not even many big law doors. I also don't think it's really that much more "prestigious." Both are T14 and non HYP ivy league schools.

Honestly, the main thing Penn has going for it over Cornell is that it isn't in Ithaca.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by Tls2016 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:19 am

If you might do PI for a while, be sure to compare the LRAP programs from each school.
I think Penn will pay down your loan and not just make IBR payments, but it's late and I'm not sure. Cornell doesn't seem to require IBR too but that could be old info. Figure that out before you decide.

Be careful if you think you can move fluidly from biglaw to PI or vice versa. It's possible from some jobs to get govt jobs but it isn't simple. It will be even more complicated with your high debt load.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by CFC1524 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:26 am

Would say Cornell is the best choice here given the somewhat generic biglaw goals; plus the difference in price will be a bit more than 40,000 once you factor in interest. Have you tried to negotiate yet, OP? Not sure what to expect from Penn, but Cornell should be willing to bump you up to 165 / 168 if you show them your offers / express genuine interest.

Re Cornell's LRAP: they reworked everything in 2015 - not sure how it worked before, but now you receive an annual award equal to the amount of your total yearly IBR or PAYE payment. You don't have to place your loans in IBR or PAYE, but the award will be calculated as if you had. There's a discretionary cap at 15,000 per year, with a max salary of 80,000

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by krads153 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:10 pm

If you want to do PI at these prices, read this thread about "loan forgiveness" (in other words, it's a nightmare and not as easy as just doing PI for 10 years and having it wiped out...).

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=262264

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by bobbyflayed » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:47 pm

Philadelphia isn't stellar, but the problem with Cornell is that you have to be in upstate New York all three years.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by Mikey » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:49 pm

If you can get more money out of Penn then Penn, if not Cornell.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs Penn ($$) vs Cornell ($$$)

Post by Nebby » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:09 pm

Penn

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