Top Law Schools

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I'm confused by your post. Will you be on the hook for a full year's tuition at SLS (because your fellowship only pays two years)? Will the stipend make up for the third year? You should share cost-of-attendance figures for each school.

Also, what do you think "international law" means? What do you actually want to do?

It would be helpful if you put up your total expected COA (even if you won't use loans to cover it) and some more specific goals. I transferred from NYU to SLS, so I can probably tell you a bit more about the differences if your'e interested. If SLS isn't that much more than NYU (after the stipend), I would probably go with that. I mainly base this on the fact that it's much easier to squeak out H's (at 33% of the curve) than to angle your way into the top ~9% for A's at a school with actual grades.

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Also, being able to do the joint degree at Stanford has to be a huge benefit in that you should be able to shave at least a year off the total time you'll be in school. I figure you should suck it up and do both degrees at Stanford.

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I mainly transferred because it would save me some cash. But that explanation perhaps understates some of SLS's virtues, especially for someone with a more scholarly interest. If you're not interested in straightforward PI/BigLaw, SLS probably has a bigger advantage. Their placement numbers for academia/clerkships/whatever are much better than NYU's. I suspect that that's primarily on account of the small size of the school. It's much easier to form relationships with professors in a class of 180 rather than a class of 450, and those relationships really help when you're on the academic track.

There are also smaller differences, like the fact that it's easier to write on to the law review in a smaller class, vaguer class rankings, etc. If you were going for BigLaw/PI I would tell you to go to NYU in a heartbeat in this case. If there's anything more specific you'd like to know about, let me know.

EDIT: I am also unironically impressed with the SLS chairs. I swear that my ass feels like 5x better with these.

How would you manage the two degrees if you lived in NYC?
Is there any reason to believe that NYU and living in NYC will be better than Stanford for the work you want to do?

Will you be able to cover the cost of living in NYC?

Nekrowizard wrote:I mainly transferred because it would save me some cash. But that explanation perhaps understates some of SLS's virtues, especially for someone with a more scholarly interest. If you're not interested in straightforward PI/BigLaw, SLS probably has a bigger advantage. Their placement numbers for academia/clerkships/whatever are much better than NYU's.

That's certainly true as a general matter, but academia for someone like the OP is going to be very niche-driven. OP: Do both schools have professors who specialize in your field? If you're really certain that you want legal academia (the fact that you're getting a PhD makes me think—in contrast to 95% of of TLS posters who say they're interested in academia—that you're actually serious), it can really help to have faculty mentorship in your field of interest. That should be a bigger concern for you than general academia/clerkship placement stats.

Stanford.

I feel like everyone who says they are interested in international law is a troll.

L’Étranger wrote:I feel like everyone who says they are interested in international law is a troll.

Int'l law is a real thing, at least in terms of jurisdiction and the FSA. Many people will wind up using it at some point.

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For the money it would make a lot of sense to choose NYU and that should be a big part of your decision. That being said don't kid yourself that some niche program at NYU will ever be viewed as equalizing the schools. They are not similar.

eph wrote:For the money it would make a lot of sense to choose NYU and that should be a big part of your decision. That being said don't kid yourself that some niche program at NYU will ever be viewed as equalizing the schools. They are not similar.

Unless the "niche" program = more people/focus on the area of your PhD. Differences in programs actually matter for your PhD. Differences in faculty matter - NYU could actually be better for the PhD field. (I'm sort of confused about the location/timing of the PhD though.)

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balidh wrote:I'd still be going to Stanford for my Ph.D. so this has nothing to do with that. I know a few joint degree students who do the degrees at different institutions (and one bicoastal) so it isn't as odd as it seems. You can break up the years however you wish (some differ law school for a year or two, some defer the Ph.D., just depends on your programs).

If it makes a difference, I'm interested in the IILJ program at NYU.

As far as I know, SLS has nothing that resembles the IILJ Scholar deal, especially if you want to do the weird JD-LLM thing they offer. I'm not a big int'l law guy, but I will say that there seemed to be a much greater focus on it at NYU than I find at SLS. I could be wrong though! SLS does offer International Human Rights Clinic, and I know a few people who participate in some sort of international arbitration competition. But that's about the only institutional stuff (aside from classes) I can think of, and it's obviously not quite the research focus you seem to want.

That said, I think you'll have a hard time finding people on TLS who that have much experience with this. You might be better off contacting admissions at both schools and asking them to put you in touch with some alums who did what you want. They're usually pretty accommodating, from what I understand.

eph wrote:For the money it would make a lot of sense to choose NYU and that should be a big part of your decision. That being said don't kid yourself that some niche program at NYU will ever be viewed as equalizing the schools. They are not similar.

What? They are very similar

eph wrote:For the money it would make a lot of sense to choose NYU and that should be a big part of your decision. That being said don't kid yourself that some niche program at NYU will ever be viewed as equalizing the schools. They are not similar.

You're missing the point. I was not recommending that OP consider NYU because it's highly ranked in the International Law specialty rankings or something like that. I was talking about the very specific circumstance in which an applicant has a focused interest in pursuing academia in a niche field.

The TLS hive is terrible when it comes to giving advice about this kind of thing. The hive treats it like big law placement--e.g., "SLS places 3% of its class in academia whereas NYU places 1.5%, so go to SLS." But academia doesn't work like that. If NYU has a potential law school faculty mentor in OP's niche and SLS does not, then NYU could well be the better choice.

If the op is seeking legal academia then get a Harvard SJD. Even up money no one should choose NYU over Stanford. Ever. Where is premium price point lies is a subject for many debates with no real answer.

eph wrote:If the op is seeking legal academia then get a Harvard SJD. Even up money no one should choose NYU over Stanford. Ever. Where is premium price point lies is a subject for many debates with no real answer.

Harvard SJD isn't one of the OP's options. And even if it were, it wouldn't necessarily be the right answer, depending on the field. Stop giving advice on legal academia.

eph wrote:If the op is seeking legal academia then get a Harvard SJD. Even up money no one should choose NYU over Stanford. Ever. Where is premium price point lies is a subject for many debates with no real answer.

Oh my stars, this is wrong advice. OP is on an ideal track to enter legal academia. JD + PhD is the new ticket.

The SJD program at Harvard is second to none in academia placement. I didn't do it as I have no interest in teaching but have a number of friends in it. Look at any top law school and compare the number of Harvard/Stanford professors compared to NYU. They aren't in the same league.

eph wrote:The SJD program at Harvard is second to none in academia placement. I didn't do it as I have no interest in teaching but have a number of friends in it. Look at any top law school and compare the number of Harvard/Stanford professors compared to NYU. They aren't in the same league.

rpupkin wrote:Stop giving advice on legal academia.

eph wrote:The SJD program at Harvard is second to none in academia placement. I didn't do it as I have no interest in teaching but have a number of friends in it. Look at any top law school and compare the number of Harvard/Stanford professors compared to NYU. They aren't in the same league.

Virtually all of Harvard SJDs are foreign nationals who are getting a second/third legal degree, much like the LLM program (or more accurately, the SJD is the post-LLM degree). Yes, the program has excellent placement in academia but it is targeted toward a very narrow target demographic and from what I've seen most SJDs return to their home countries to teach. The fact that you think the SJD program is relevant here demonstrates you have no idea what you're talking about.