Non-Traditional Student Choosing between PT & FT Programs Forum

[265489164158]

Post removed.

[lymenheimer]

You don't have to have biglaw aspirations for a full scholarship to be worth it. You have a great gpa and you are selling yourself short with these options. If you wait until you graduate, and put your school time towards LSAT studying, you can get a great score and much better options than you have here (with scholarship). Play around with the mylsn charts. Definitely will open your eyes about your options with that gpa.

[265489164158]

Post Removed.

[fliptrip]

Well, first, I know that when it comes to grown folks like you (you are definitely not old enough to be my mom, lol), you've already made your mind up about going to school and any advice about not going at all is going to be a waste of time.

Others are more experienced and expert on this topic than I am, but I believe your surest path to in-house is working at a big firm first, which will basically train you how to practice law and be useful to a company. Getting on that pathway is highly unlikely given your current school options. Now, I know nothing about these JD-preferred type positions you seem to be describing in insurance (do you have to have passed the bar to have these adjuster jobs?), but it seems logical that knowledge of the business plus your JD might be enough to land there out of school. Again, I don't know. I do feel like a school like McGeorge seems like a good place to go to end up doing family law in some way. Looking at Davis, 20% of their grads end up in government, which makes sense for a school in a government town.

Taking a year out and retaking the LSAT is a good idea though because you did not do anything to prepare the first time and got a 155 (12 hours is absolutely nothing in terms of prep). You should be able to get that to or above 165, which is Davis' 75%ile LSAT. You already have a 75th%ile GPA for Davis and being about both 75%ths should get you a full ride there. That's your best option...Davis for free + your partner's help + your goals = a great plan.

I think your current options, frankly, suck. This isn't about the schools themselves necessarily, which are all regionals of varying placement power in the region. They suck because of the scholarship stipulations, which just open a whole can of worms that could put you in a bad way. I don't think anyone should take a scholarship with any stipulation beyond good academic standing.

If you take the year and snag Davis FT, you will get your degree on the same timeline as you would have going PT, so you can't really argue you can't stomach to spare the year. And, don't give me the I'm 45 I can't spend another year out of school jazz. You are far from the grave, my friend. Also, you already have a FT job, so you can't even play the "oh what will I do for work" card.

[Tls2016]

You absolutely are cheating yourself if you don't study properly and get your best LSAT score. Impatience isn't a valid reason to take on unnecessary debt when you are 45.

You shouldn't go to any of these schools and you will regret your impatience. One year isn't going to make a difference at this point. You are no different than the 21 or 22 year old son who say they can't take another year.

Your likely salary from these schools will likely be the same or less than you are now. How much do you think you will make as a grad from these schools?

Read the likely employment outcomes from these schools:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/sanfrancisco/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/pacific/

[Tls2016]

I appreciate the feedback, but again, I am pretty determined to start in fall of 2016. I think that taking a year off of school would not be the best course for me. I will be 45 next month and I am ready to do this now.

You are determined because you think law school will give you a better job and life. You have a less than 50% chance of that being true from these schools.

Also, what would you do if you lost your scholarship? Do you understand the mandatory curve, one exam and section stacking that law schools use to guarantee a certain percentage lose their scholarships? Conditional scholarships are a marketing gimmick.

Here is the mcgeorge scholarship mandatory disclosure. You can see easily how they manipulated scholarships before disclosure was required. And they resolved that by giving half as many scholarships that still 20% of people lose.
http://www.mcgeorge.edu/Students/Studen ... rships.htm

https://dgfmssnschws7.cloudfront.net/si ... report.pdf
17 out of 47 people lost their conditional scholarship at USF.

[265489164158]

Thank you all for your opinions and perspectives. Since the general consensus is that one should not go to law school unless one is in the 98th percentile and can attend for free and no one wants to actually address the question posed, I have deleted my original post. Perhaps I tend to be an optimist, but I believe that one can obtain a quality legal education with the right attitude and work ethic from a lower ranked institution. I understand the statistics, that there are too many lawyers, and not everyone can succeed. I understand that all law students believe they will perform well, and many are unable to with curves, etc, but I cannot live my life in fear that I will be in the 20% that lose my scholarship, or that I will be in the 35% who do not pass the bar. If I lived my life with that type of fear and belief system, then I would miss out on many wonderful opportunities and experiences.

Best of luck to you all!

[totesTheGoat]

Since the general consensus is that one should not go to law school unless one is in the 98th percentile and can attend for free and no one wants to actually address the question posed, I have deleted my original post.Perhaps I tend to be an optimist, but I believe that one can obtain a quality legal education with the right attitude and work ethic from a lower ranked institution. I understand the statistics, that there are too many lawyers, and not everyone can succeed. I understand that all law students believe they will perform well, and many are unable to with curves, etc, but I cannot live my life in fear that I will be in the 20% that lose my scholarship, or that I will be in the 35% who do not pass the bar. If I lived my life with that type of fear and belief system, then I would miss out on many wonderful opportunities and experiences.

I hesitate to respond to this, but I really hope that nobody wanders into this thread and takes the above quoted as advice. In my opinion, there is no room for optimism or pessimism when you're making a quarter-million dollar decision about your future, especially at age 45. The decision to go to a TTT law school at age 45 with debt financing is more akin to buying lottery tickets than investing in yourself. It's not about fear, it's about realism.

[fliptrip]

Thank you all for your opinions and perspectives. Since the general consensus is that one should not go to law school unless one is in the 98th percentile and can attend for free and no one wants to actually address the question posed, I have deleted my original post. Perhaps I tend to be an optimist, but I believe that one can obtain a quality legal education with the right attitude and work ethic from a lower ranked institution. I understand the statistics, that there are too many lawyers, and not everyone can succeed. I understand that all law students believe they will perform well, and many are unable to with curves, etc, but I cannot live my life in fear that I will be in the 20% that lose my scholarship, or that I will be in the 35% who do not pass the bar. If I lived my life with that type of fear and belief system, then I would miss out on many wonderful opportunities and experiences.

Best of luck to you all!

No. You already had your mind made up before you created this thread and came here seeking confirmation of what you're planning to do. Unfortunately, we can't do that because giving people advice to take bad bets is not helpful. None of your options are good bets right now and the alternatives we suggested do not in any way involve being a 98th %ile anything. Good luck to you and I hope you do beat the odds.

[265489164158]

Correct. I stated at the outset that I plan to start fall and asked for feedback on the two options presented. I understand the consensus is that I am asking people to choose between options they do not support.

[Tls2016]

Correct. I stated at the outset that I plan to start fall and asked for feedback on the two options presented. I understand the consensus is that I am asking people to choose between options they do not support.

You are very wrong that people think only the 98% and above should go. You could get a free legal education if you studied for a test you said you barely studied for. It doesn't seem rational to refuse to do so just because you want to go this year.

You need to understand the risk you will lose your scholarship and the risk you won't get a job you want. I spent time finding the links and explaining them to you to help you make a better decision, not because I think only people who get into Yale should attend law school.

These are just the facts of the situation you are facing. There is no judgement behind it except maybe at the schools for being so deceptive.

If you are still determined to go, take whichever scholarship you are less likely to lose, or look at bar passage statistics and go to the one that has a better pass rate. The California bar is one of the most difficult in the US, at least go to the school that might prepare you to pass.

[Tls2016]

Thank you all for your opinions and perspectives. Since the general consensus is that one should not go to law school unless one is in the 98th percentile and can attend for free and no one wants to actually address the question posed, I have deleted my original post. Perhaps I tend to be an optimist, but I believe that one can obtain a quality legal education with the right attitude and work ethic from a lower ranked institution. I understand the statistics, that there are too many lawyers, and not everyone can succeed. I understand that all law students believe they will perform well, and many are unable to with curves, etc, but I cannot live my life in fear that I will be in the 20% that lose my scholarship, or that I will be in the 35% who do not pass the bar. If I lived my life with that type of fear and belief system, then I would miss out on many wonderful opportunities and experiences.

Best of luck to you all!

You realize the 20% who lost their scholarship and the 35% who failed the bar thought the exact same way that you do right now.

You have a chance to make a different decision and you are refusing to do so because you think trusting these numbers means living with a "type of fear and belief system"

It's your life and money and career. At least you were warned and chose to ignore it unlike most of the people who go to those schools and think, as you do,they are making a good decision for their future.

[lymenheimer]

If you take the year and snag Davis FT, you will get your degree on the same timeline as you would have going PT, so you can't really argue you can't stomach to spare the year.

I was going to highlight this comment, but I thought you'd complain that you already read it. Apparently you did not read it. It makes no sense to be locked into this fall when you can easily be on the same timeline, while paying nothing for school, if you just study for the LSAT and reapply.

eta: read the url...Nobody is going to advocate for the schools you are choosing between, in your circumstances.

[Tls2016]

If you take the year and snag Davis FT, you will get your degree on the same timeline as you would have going PT, so you can't really argue you can't stomach to spare the year.

I was going to highlight this comment, but I thought you'd complain that you already read it. Apparently you did not read it. It makes no sense to be locked into this fall when you can easily be on the same timeline, while paying nothing for school, if you just study for the LSAT and reapply.

eta: read the url...Nobody is going to advocate for the schools you are choosing between, in your circumstances.

I thought she read it but dismissed it because she is determined to go in the Fall and not retake.