Top Law Schools

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What sort of law programs/specialties are you looking into?

I think Vandy is a great option in this situation. Wait on UT's offer, it may make your decision easier.

First blush, Vandy seems nice. You likely will not get a ton of scholarship at UT, since your at median LSAT and below on the GPA. Nevertheless, you should squeeze more out of Vandy per negotiation. UT is a fine choice for an in-stater with $$, but as an OOS, you really need an LSAT over 170 to get that $$$.

So I got a decent scholarship to UT. I flew out there this weekend and absolutely loved the school and the area.

Confusedlawkid wrote:-

What is it like to be OOS at UT?
Is the fact that 70ish percent of grads staying in Texas have more to do with self-selection or is it the reality of a degree from UT?
Would it be foolish to go to Texas when I don't have connections to the area?
I know Vandy touts its "national reach" for being outside of the T14 but I didn't know if that just had to do with Tennessee's relatively small legal market.
What do the employment prospects look for a student who graduates at median at both schools?

I was OOS at UT when I was there so I'll give you my opinion. Most kids staying in Texas is a little of both. A significant number of people are from Texas and fully plan on staying. Others, like myself, realized they wanted to stay in Texas after spending a year or two here because they liked it. I knew many kids who went out to CA/NY/Chicago/Atlanta.

The thing is, it is just easier for you to get a job in Texas than in those places. Median at UT can get you TX biglaw (happens all the time), but it will be harder to sell that trying to move into other states. If you are in top 1/3 or so, you shouldn't have much trouble going out of state if you have ties/good reasons to move wherever.

As far as Vandy national reach, they still place most of their kids in Tennessee (according to their ABA numbers). They more than likely place better in DC than UT does, and maybe a little better in NY (personally I think same levels). UT probably places better in CA though, so I think you have some tradeoffs with both. Someone with Vandy experience can comment on that.

Confusedlawkid wrote: What is it like to be OOS at UT?
Is the fact that 70ish percent of grads staying in Texas have more to do with self-selection or is it the reality of a degree from UT?
Would it be foolish to go to Texas when I don't have connections to the area?
I know Vandy touts its "national reach" for being outside of the T14 but I didn't know if that just had to do with Tennessee's relatively small legal market.
What do the employment prospects look for a student who graduates at median at both schools?

I'm a current OOS 1L at UT, but I did go to undergrad in TX, so that may skew my perspective a bit. I love it here and don't really know anyone who doesn't love the school. (unless they just hate law school in general, and that's a different issue) Austin is an easy city to enjoy, and there are a surprising number of OOS students who came just for law school.

I think a lot of the staying in Texas thing is self selection + ease of getting a job in TX. Right now I'm planning on moving back to my home state after graduation and ideally would be in a city that is a tertiary market. But I'm definitely open to the possibility of staying in TX. Firms back home seemed really receptive to meeting with me when I was home over break. A few people asked generally about my reasons for leaving TX, but it wasn't a problem after I gave solid reasons.

My OOS friends who just moved to Texas for law school had no trouble finding summer employment, I can't really speak beyond that. One girl from NYC got questioned hard about her commitment to TX when interviewing for this summer, but it didn't affect her ability to find a good job. As long as you have solid reasons for wanting to stay in TX, it won't be a problem.

I was in a nearly identical situation deciding between Vandy and TX, likely with similar scholarship amounts. I ultimately chose UT because I got a weird vibe from Vandy students about competitiveness and two people commented that there wasn't a lot of "mixing" in Nashville. The comment came out of a conversation about diversity and the South, so take it as you will, it just kind of put me off. The main factor in my decision was job placement, I knew that TX has a very solid legal market that UT directly feeds into. Vandy doesn't have the type of direct market like UT. I sort of got the impression that students go national because they're forced to and not because they want to leave TN/The South. Ultimately UT was better for my goals of staying in the Midwest or TX.

I can't speak to median at Vandy. But median at UT comes with a distinct possibility of Biglaw in TX. At median, it all comes down to personality and networking for Biglaw.

ellewoods817 wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote: What is it like to be OOS at UT?
Is the fact that 70ish percent of grads staying in Texas have more to do with self-selection or is it the reality of a degree from UT?
Would it be foolish to go to Texas when I don't have connections to the area?
I know Vandy touts its "national reach" for being outside of the T14 but I didn't know if that just had to do with Tennessee's relatively small legal market.
What do the employment prospects look for a student who graduates at median at both schools?

I'm a current OOS 1L at UT, but I did go to undergrad in TX, so that may skew my perspective a bit. I love it here and don't really know anyone who doesn't love the school. (unless they just hate law school in general, and that's a different issue) Austin is an easy city to enjoy, and there are a surprising number of OOS students who came just for law school.

I think a lot of the staying in Texas thing is self selection + ease of getting a job in TX. Right now I'm planning on moving back to my home state after graduation and ideally would be in a city that is a tertiary market. But I'm definitely open to the possibility of staying in TX. Firms back home seemed really receptive to meeting with me when I was home over break. A few people asked generally about my reasons for leaving TX, but it wasn't a problem after I gave solid reasons.

My OOS friends who just moved to Texas for law school had no trouble finding summer employment, I can't really speak beyond that. One girl from NYC got questioned hard about her commitment to TX when interviewing for this summer, but it didn't affect her ability to find a good job. As long as you have solid reasons for wanting to stay in TX, it won't be a problem.

I was in a nearly identical situation deciding between Vandy and TX, likely with similar scholarship amounts. I ultimately chose UT because I got a weird vibe from Vandy students about competitiveness and two people commented that there wasn't a lot of "mixing" in Nashville. The comment came out of a conversation about diversity and the South, so take it as you will, it just kind of put me off. The main factor in my decision was job placement, I knew that TX has a very solid legal market that UT directly feeds into. Vandy doesn't have the type of direct market like UT. I sort of got the impression that students go national because they're forced to and not because they want to leave TN/The South. Ultimately UT was better for my goals of staying in the Midwest or TX.

I can't speak to median at Vandy. But median at UT comes with a distinct possibility of Biglaw in TX. At median, it all comes down to personality and networking for Biglaw.

Thank you so much for the solid information and I agree with you about the weird competitiveness of Vandy law students.. I deposited and will be at UT in the fall!

favabeansoup wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote:-

What is it like to be OOS at UT?
Is the fact that 70ish percent of grads staying in Texas have more to do with self-selection or is it the reality of a degree from UT?
Would it be foolish to go to Texas when I don't have connections to the area?
I know Vandy touts its "national reach" for being outside of the T14 but I didn't know if that just had to do with Tennessee's relatively small legal market.
What do the employment prospects look for a student who graduates at median at both schools?

I was OOS at UT when I was there so I'll give you my opinion. Most kids staying in Texas is a little of both. A significant number of people are from Texas and fully plan on staying. Others, like myself, realized they wanted to stay in Texas after spending a year or two here because they liked it. I knew many kids who went out to CA/NY/Chicago/Atlanta.

The thing is, it is just easier for you to get a job in Texas than in those places. Median at UT can get you TX biglaw (happens all the time), but it will be harder to sell that trying to move into other states. If you are in top 1/3 or so, you shouldn't have much trouble going out of state if you have ties/good reasons to move wherever.

As far as Vandy national reach, they still place most of their kids in Tennessee (according to their ABA numbers). They more than likely place better in DC than UT does, and maybe a little better in NY (personally I think same levels). UT probably places better in CA though, so I think you have some tradeoffs with both. Someone with Vandy experience can comment on that.

I think I was overvaluing Vandy's name prestige. I'm from the south and I really think Texas has the right vibe I'm looking for. Thank you for the advice

favabeansoup wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote:-

As far as Vandy national reach, they still place most of their kids in Tennessee (according to their ABA numbers). They more than likely place better in DC than UT does, and maybe a little better in NY (personally I think same levels). UT probably places better in CA though, so I think you have some tradeoffs with both. Someone with Vandy experience can comment on that.

Vandy only places 20% of its class in TN. Just for the record.

SirArthurDayne wrote:

favabeansoup wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote:-

As far as Vandy national reach, they still place most of their kids in Tennessee (according to their ABA numbers). They more than likely place better in DC than UT does, and maybe a little better in NY (personally I think same levels). UT probably places better in CA though, so I think you have some tradeoffs with both. Someone with Vandy experience can comment on that.

Vandy only places 20% of its class in TN. Just for the record.

Thanks for the correction, it is just really hard to get an accurate count for those not at Vandy . The ABA #s for 2015 for example only list 38 TN, 21 NY, 14 TX as top 3 employment locations. Now that clearly isn't a full picture as it is missing half the class's locations in there, but we can't tell exactly where those other kids are going (DC/NY/Atlanta/more TN?).

favabeansoup wrote:

SirArthurDayne wrote:

favabeansoup wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote:-

As far as Vandy national reach, they still place most of their kids in Tennessee (according to their ABA numbers). They more than likely place better in DC than UT does, and maybe a little better in NY (personally I think same levels). UT probably places better in CA though, so I think you have some tradeoffs with both. Someone with Vandy experience can comment on that.

Vandy only places 20% of its class in TN. Just for the record.

Thanks for the correction, it is just really hard to get an accurate count for those not at Vandy . The ABA #s for 2015 for example only list 38 TN, 21 NY, 14 TX as top 3 employment locations. Now that clearly isn't a full picture as it is missing half the class's locations in there, but we can't tell exactly where those other kids are going (DC/NY/Atlanta/more TN?).

https://issuu.com/vanderbiltlawschool/d ... services/1

SirArthurDayne wrote:
https://issuu.com/vanderbiltlawschool/d ... services/1

Thanks! very helpful table. The distribution of Vandy grads is very unique. Large spread of markets, but small numbers in each. Wonder how much is self selection into each of those. Happy for their great year employment wise regardless.

favabeansoup wrote:

SirArthurDayne wrote:
https://issuu.com/vanderbiltlawschool/d ... services/1

Thanks! very helpful table. The distribution of Vandy grads is very unique. Large spread of markets, but small numbers in each. Wonder how much is self selection into each of those. Happy for their great year employment wise regardless.

I know that Nashville is a tough market to crack, but the distribution is diverse and unique, which is a plus for students. That way you dont have to compete with half the class for one market.

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Confusedlawkid wrote:

ellewoods817 wrote:

Confusedlawkid wrote: What is it like to be OOS at UT?
Is the fact that 70ish percent of grads staying in Texas have more to do with self-selection or is it the reality of a degree from UT?
Would it be foolish to go to Texas when I don't have connections to the area?
I know Vandy touts its "national reach" for being outside of the T14 but I didn't know if that just had to do with Tennessee's relatively small legal market.
What do the employment prospects look for a student who graduates at median at both schools?

I'm a current OOS 1L at UT, but I did go to undergrad in TX, so that may skew my perspective a bit. I love it here and don't really know anyone who doesn't love the school. (unless they just hate law school in general, and that's a different issue) Austin is an easy city to enjoy, and there are a surprising number of OOS students who came just for law school.

I think a lot of the staying in Texas thing is self selection + ease of getting a job in TX. Right now I'm planning on moving back to my home state after graduation and ideally would be in a city that is a tertiary market. But I'm definitely open to the possibility of staying in TX. Firms back home seemed really receptive to meeting with me when I was home over break. A few people asked generally about my reasons for leaving TX, but it wasn't a problem after I gave solid reasons.

My OOS friends who just moved to Texas for law school had no trouble finding summer employment, I can't really speak beyond that. One girl from NYC got questioned hard about her commitment to TX when interviewing for this summer, but it didn't affect her ability to find a good job. As long as you have solid reasons for wanting to stay in TX, it won't be a problem.

I was in a nearly identical situation deciding between Vandy and TX, likely with similar scholarship amounts. I ultimately chose UT because I got a weird vibe from Vandy students about competitiveness and two people commented that there wasn't a lot of "mixing" in Nashville. The comment came out of a conversation about diversity and the South, so take it as you will, it just kind of put me off. The main factor in my decision was job placement, I knew that TX has a very solid legal market that UT directly feeds into. Vandy doesn't have the type of direct market like UT. I sort of got the impression that students go national because they're forced to and not because they want to leave TN/The South. Ultimately UT was better for my goals of staying in the Midwest or TX.

I can't speak to median at Vandy. But median at UT comes with a distinct possibility of Biglaw in TX. At median, it all comes down to personality and networking for Biglaw.

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