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Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:39 pm
by JimmyPacquiao
Hi all,
Current special education teacher (TFA alum) looking to get into child advocacy/education litigation. So far my options for schools are as follows:
Berkeley- Sticker
UCLA- 80k
USC- 105k
UCI- 120k
I'm definitely scared of both debt and job prospects. I most likely want to practice in my native Southern California, but wouldn't rule out the Bay Area.
Any advice on where to go and where to start scholarship negotiations would be much appreciated. Do you all think it would be better to try and use my UCLA scholarship to negotiate with USC first, or the UCI Scholarship, or both? Should I try and see if Irvine will offer more $ first?
Thanks!
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:09 pm
by krads153
What is "education litigation"? Are you looking to work for a school?
I'm not a fan of these options at these prices....
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:46 pm
by JimmyPacquiao
krads153 wrote:What is "education litigation"? Are you looking to work for a school?
I'm not a fan of these options at these prices....
Hey, thanks for your reply. I'd ideally like to represent students with disabilities
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:14 pm
by BigZuck
I would cross UCI off the list (mentally that is, but maybe you can use it as a negotiation pawn though I doubt it)
I'm not a huge fan of these prices either. Maybe take USC's offer to UCLA and see what happens, then go back to USC if UCLA raises it
What's the difference in tuition between UCLA and USC for you here?
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:48 pm
by zot1
UCI.
Caveat: what you want to doesn't give you a lot of money or job prospects in general. However, if you do get a job in PI, you can use LRAP for your loans. But that's a big if to keep in mind.
I do know a couple of UCI alumni currently working on child advocacy right now. Let me know if you'd like to talk to someone in the field.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:00 am
by BigZuck
zot1 wrote:UCI.
Caveat: what you want to doesn't give you a lot of money or job prospects in general. However, if you do get a job in PI, you can use LRAP for your loans. But that's a big if to keep in mind.
I do know a couple of UCI alumni currently working on child advocacy right now. Let me know if you'd like to talk to someone in the field.
Why UCI? It's the worst choice here (although maybe Berkeley is arguably worse)
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:38 am
by zot1
Based on scholarship and what the person wants to do. UCI has several opportunities that could help OP connect with people doing what he wants to do. Just class of 2015 (~115 grads) has three people working in child advocacy and 3-4 working on juvenile matters in general.
But as I mentioned to OP, no matter where he goes, this is a tough field because there are not that many jobs out there for him. And even if they are, they do not pay very well. I think people forget sometimes that not living with your parents is nice.
That's why.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:52 am
by BigZuck
UCI isn't justifiably cheaper than significantly better schools here though. There's also other factors like no alumni base, etc. But mostly it doesn't make sense based on cost.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:22 am
by zot1
I disagree.
To begin with, it is a lot cheaper. A single student could get student housing for as low as 450 per month. You can't find that in LA.
On the other hand, UCI has four classes of alumni and one more coming up shortly. By the time a person now graduates, there would be a few more. But more importantly, UCI alumni are willing and happy to help. I've seen it happen over the years now and I don't have a reason to think the degree of involvement would change over the years.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:46 am
by Tiago Splitter
zot1 wrote:I disagree.
To begin with, it is a lot cheaper. A single student could get student housing for as low as 450 per month. You can't find that in LA.
On the other hand, UCI has four classes of alumni and one more coming up shortly. By the time a person now graduates, there would be a few more. But more importantly, UCI alumni are willing and happy to help. I've seen it happen over the years now and I don't have a reason to think the degree of involvement would change over the years.
1. Irvine housing is plenty expensive.
2. You've recommended UCI in every thread where it's mentioned. Are there any circumstances where you wouldn't recommend it?
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:12 pm
by zot1
Irvine housing is expensive if you live off campus. If you don't, it's not. I went to irvine and am familiar with the prices. 450 per month wasn't a joke, it was a fact.
I haven't always recommend it irvine, but I'm biased for obvious reasons.
I wouldn't recommend it if the applicant is set on BigLaw and Irvine is offering a low or no scholarship. I wouldn't recommend it if a person only wants to work in the Bay Area and they also have an offer from Berkeley or even Hastings (not because I think Hastings > Irvine but because location matters more than TLSers sometimes think).
But in the situations I've seen recently (good scholarship, southern Cali hopes, public interest minded or not necessarily set on BigLaw), Irvine makes a good choice.
Now, let me qualify the BigLaw bit. No matter how great you think you are, at the end of the day you don't know how well you will do in your class to get there. So I generally think no one should go to law school thinking that making top 50% of the class and getting an SA is a sure shot.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:24 pm
by krads153
JimmyPacquiao wrote:krads153 wrote:What is "education litigation"? Are you looking to work for a school?
I'm not a fan of these options at these prices....
Hey, thanks for your reply. I'd ideally like to represent students with disabilities
There aren't a lot of jobs that focus on this....i think the debt amount is too high at all of these schools, especially if you want PI. If you had a gun to my head, I'd say UCLA or USC, but I would consider retaking the LSAT and reapplying next year. (Retaking the LSAT is a lot easier than paying back loans or waiting 10 years for forgiveness.)
My spouse is in non profit in NYC and I can tell you that non profits pay very, very little (possibly even less than teachers get paid). If we weren't living together (i'm in biglaw), I'm not sure if my spouse would be able to support themselves here (plus my spouse didn't have any loans since the parents paid for everything). And frankly, a lot of non profit attorneys are rich kids who don't have to worry about money. Truth is that a lot of non profit attorneys get paid the same as or less than teachers, but work more (since they don't get summers off). One of my friends in non profit here works 60 hour weeks but gets paid less than 60k.......60 hours a week for 60k is a bit extreme, but just saying, not all non profits work 40 hour weeks. If money is at all a concern or maintaining a certain standard of QOL, I would retake. If you ever want to have a family, etc. then don't accrue a high debt load. LRAP/PLSF sounds like a good bargain, but you still have to do it for 10 years...that's a very long time and your priorities may change.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:35 pm
by Tiago Splitter
zot1 wrote:Irvine housing is expensive if you live off campus. If you don't, it's not. I went to irvine and am familiar with the prices. 450 per month wasn't a joke, it was a fact.
I haven't always recommend it irvine, but I'm biased for obvious reasons.
I wouldn't recommend it if the applicant is set on BigLaw and Irvine is offering a low or no scholarship. I wouldn't recommend it if a person only wants to work in the Bay Area and they also have an offer from Berkeley or even Hastings (not because I think Hastings > Irvine but because location matters more than TLSers sometimes think).
But in the situations I've seen recently (good scholarship, southern Cali hopes, public interest minded or not necessarily set on BigLaw), Irvine makes a good choice.
Now, let me qualify the BigLaw bit. No matter how great you think you are, at the end of the day you don't know how well you will do in your class to get there. So I generally think no one should go to law school thinking that making top 50% of the class and getting an SA is a sure shot.
I mean you couldn't find housing for 450 on campus when I started at UCI in 2002, but maybe they've improved things since then. Good to hear.
Otherwise you seem to be saying you'd take UCI over USC and UCLA at relatively close prices, regardless of goals, which seems shocking to me but you're the insider.
Re: Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC vs UCI
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:44 pm
by zot1
http://www.housing.uci.edu/rates/rates.html If you go to Verano housing under graduate housing and look at the shared rates, the smallest rate is 375 per month.
I disagree with your conclusion. I specifically said that UCI is a good option depending on the scholarship money and career goal.
I don't know everything but I do know a good chunk of people who have attended or currently go to the following law schools: UCI, UCLA, USC, loyola, pepperdine, southwestern, Berkeley, and USD (I'm not including out of state people I know). I draw from the information I get from these people to form my own opinions as to what would work best.
Do people have to take my opinion and follow it? Of course not! But why should I hold back from providing my opinion to someone who might, just might, find it useful?
Sure a lot of people don't get UCI. That doesn't mean that the school isn't doing well and placing alumni well. So as someone who actually knows the situation, I feel it my responsibility to share it. OP can do what he wants with the information.