UCLA or Vanderbilt? Forum

[wolfie_m.]

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[arklaw13]

Yeah my numbers are 58% or whatever getting summer jobs at 100+ firms or market paying smaller firms. This doesn't necessarily mean biglaw. Only 37% summered at a V100 according to my numbers. There were a lot of 100+firms in smaller markets that would be more midlaw-ish.

Keep in mind that doesn't include no offers, clerkships, and people who landed a job without an SA. So will bl+fc actually end up at 60%? Who knows. But it definitely should be better than the most recent data by a good bit.

So I would not be as risk averse as I once was given how my class did.

[cron1834]

So Vandy is now a peer of UVA & UMich, and taking out $180k in debt to get NY PI from a school like UCLA or Vandy makes sense.

Leaning lots on TLS today.

[arklaw13]

So Vandy is now a peer of UVA & UMich, and taking out $180k in debt to get NY PI from a school like UCLA or Vandy makes sense.

Leaning lots on TLS today.

Well keep in mind whatever the biglaw numbers are have nothing to do with getting NY PI...I don't have any advice for anyone in that situation, which is why I didn't comment on this thread until it turned into a fight over whether Vandy is a trap school because of its employment numbers.

Look, Vandy's employment numbers will go up, probably mostly due to the fact that our curve is now on par with our peers. Our old median was around 3.2, maybe a little less. You can say all day that recruiting knows the curves, etc., but when a hiring committee is sitting in a room and they have one spot to fill and two candidates left, a Vandy kid with a 3.3 on the old curve and a kid from a lower T14 with a 3.3 ( let's imagine they're using a 3.3 curve), the committee is probably going to think, they have basically the same grades, but the second kid went to a better school. All things being equal, second kid probably gets the job. When really the Vandy kid was probably around top 40%, maybe closer to top third. If they knew that, maybe it would be a closer call.

But we don't have a ton of alumni at most firms who can give accurate information about the grading system, and basically no people on hiring committees in major market firms, so most firms probably just assumed we were on the same curve as our close peers, because almost everyone has settled on a B+ curve. The firms in the southeast probably knew, but for the most part we don't really compete with T14 kids for those jobs. Our lower curve really hurt us the most at NYC firms (for DC you need high enough grades that the curve difference probably didn't matter as much).

But the increase in numbers is probably also to do with the fact that the market is getting better. So no, Vandy is probably not and will probably never be a peer of UVA and UMICH. When c/o 2016's numbers come out, they will undoubtedly still do much better than us in BL+FC% and those in BL will more often get into higher ranked firms. But if someone wants NYC biglaw generally, it's not as hard to get here as it was in years past. I still say if you want Cali you're generally fucked, though.

[krads153]

Sorry OP. Please accept my apology.
No one is saying only go if you get a T14 with scholarship.

I wasn't clear how necessary it was for you to be in NYC. I'm on the fence about Fordham because I'm not a huge fan. If you've already rejected it, then that's that. You need to pick a region to live in where your school can get you a job.

As for national reach, I don't know about that because I've only lived in NYC. I know that your job, experience and connections matter most after you graduate. You are right about Vanderbilt having the most name recognition.

I'm extremely debt averse because I've seen people struggle to their loans back for years. I also have been around since before PAYE and that at least relieves some of the psychological stress of massive non dischargable debt. For me, law wouldn't be worth it. It's your decision though.

I've lived all over the country - West Coast, NYC, Midwest, Southwest, etc. Vanderbilt doesn't really have any name recognition in the Western half of the US....not that Fordham has any either.

[Tls2016]

Sorry OP. Please accept my apology.
No one is saying only go if you get a T14 with scholarship.

I wasn't clear how necessary it was for you to be in NYC. I'm on the fence about Fordham because I'm not a huge fan. If you've already rejected it, then that's that. You need to pick a region to live in where your school can get you a job.

As for national reach, I don't know about that because I've only lived in NYC. I know that your job, experience and connections matter most after you graduate. You are right about Vanderbilt having the most name recognition.

I'm extremely debt averse because I've seen people struggle to their loans back for years. I also have been around since before PAYE and that at least relieves some of the psychological stress of massive non dischargable debt. For me, law wouldn't be worth it. It's your decision though.

I've lived all over the country - West Coast, NYC, Midwest, Southwest, etc. Vanderbilt doesn't really have any name recognition in the Western half of the US....not that Fordham has any either.

Makes sense.

[BasedCii]

Vandy is a "trap school" now? Are you intentionally talking out of your ass?

Also, this . . .

OP: would you be happy living somewhere other than NYC? These schools are regional and it may be easier for you to get a job in their location. But I think Tennessee is ties sensitive and I don't know if you have any.

Did you apply to any NYC schools?

???

Look, Vandy is a good, but not great, school. It's not a T14. Historically, it places well in the Southeast, but people do just fine in NYC. Most Vandy people don't target NYC, though, so that's something to consider.

The other thing to consider is Vandy's placement power generally. Class of 2014 was 41% roughly BL + FC. Class of 2015 is probably similar, if not slightly higher (I'm thinking up to 45% once the numbers are released).

Class of 2016 was the first class with the new curve. That percentage will probably be more like 60% BL + FC when it comes out, based on SAs and such. I don't know what the Class of 2017 is looking.

Vandy does not place terribly well in Chicago, or on the West Coast. But people do just fine in NYC.

No offense, but this seems borderline delusional.

2016 BLFC: 50%
2017 BLFC 59%
...
2021 BLFC 69%

This has been an interesting thread to dig up