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PI; refugee advocacy, specifically asylum cases for indigenous Guatemalans. This is the work I've been doing for 4 years already. 24 years old. UC Berkeley Undergrad. Married. Living in Oakland, CA. One kid (1.5 years old). Husband is a broke undocumented immigrant (yes we are working on the papers). No help from parents but parents are high income. $21,000 in savings. If my organization continues to exist, I will be hired as a lawyer there.
Considering Hastings. Confidential scholarship (sorry. Please don't post me the annoying copypasta thing) but it is high and I'm trying to negotiate it higher. Approximate COA over three years will be 130,000 (including childcare, health insurance, rent etc) but husband works and I plan to work part time at my org (just 10 hours a week, don't trip), so we won't need to finance living expenses with debt, just tuition, provided that I can't get a scholarship increase. Will need to commute between my org in berkeley, school and home.
Considering UC Berkeley at sticker. Approximate COA $240,000 (yes I know what I did here. You so smart. Shhh.) 5 minutes away from my org. It's Berkeley.
Which is a stupider decision?

Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

To be honest both your choices seem expensive to me. But someone else should comment.If I had to choose one maybe Berkeley because your life will be easier.

What is the third option? Did I miss it?

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

JazzyMac wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

Don't flip out when people want more info. Law school's a big investment.

Are you a URM? Sorry if I missed that.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

JazzyMac wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

Don't flip out when people want more info. Law school's a big investment.

Because my feeling is you shouldn't go to law school and put your struggling family deeply into debt for a job you already have.

What's door #3?

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

JazzyMac wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

Don't flip out when people want more info. Law school's a big investment.

Cracks me up how so many posters here act like their Doctors with a prescription pad: "I don't think you need three doses of law school, one will be fine--follow up in six weeks". Point is, she didn't ask if law school was a good idea, she asked about opinions on her school choices. Other people have these same questions and definitely do not need some know-it-all acting like they have all the answers about someone wanting or not wanting to go to law school.

Last I checked, T-14 doesn't pay gatekeepers. Thankless as the job may be, it's unnecessary and uncalled for. The end.

I don't even know what that last part means - no one here is acting to help law schools. You can complain if you're the one asking questions. (It won't make any difference, but at least then you'd have grounds.)

Neither is a good idea. UC Hastings has a lot of potential for a better scholarship since you'll be living and working in the bay area anyway; it's a bummer that's not coming through. Since you'll be doing IBR/LRAP/PSLF anyway, may as well go for Berkeley. Before you withdraw from UC Hastings, I'd tell them that they either have to up your scholarship to a full ride or else you plan on withdrawing.

If my organization continues to exist

That's kind of scary. Is this the only organization you want to work for, or would you be willing to do different legal services work?

JazzyMac wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

JazzyMac wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

Don't flip out when people want more info. Law school's a big investment.

Cracks me up how so many posters here act like their Doctors with a prescription pad: "I don't think you need three doses of law school, one will be fine--follow up in six weeks". Point is, she didn't ask if law school was a good idea, she asked about opinions on her school choices. Other people have these same questions and definitely do not need some know-it-all acting like they have all the answers about someone wanting or not wanting to go to law school.

Last I checked, T-14 doesn't pay gatekeepers. Thankless as the job may be, it's unnecessary and uncalled for. The end.

The job she says she wants from law school is one she can do without law school. She has a young family and is looking at 6 figures of non dischargable debt. Finding out why she wants to go to law school can help answer her question.

DCfilterDC wrote:Are you a URM? Sorry if I missed that.

Nope, luckily I benefit from all sorts of white privilege.

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

To be honest both your choices seem expensive to me. But someone else should comment.If I had to choose one maybe Berkeley because your life will be easier.

I am BIA accredited. So what do you think is best then? USF on a full scholarship with stips? No law school at all? I wanted to read the law instead (no law school and take the bar after four years) but I couldn't find anyone willing to commit.

Good Guy Gaud wrote:What is the third option? Did I miss it?

Oh oops. UCLA with 60,000 scholarship. I guess I'm not really considering it super strongly!

Tls2016 wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

JazzyMac wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

HOW EXACTLY does this answer the question??????

Don't flip out when people want more info. Law school's a big investment.

Because my feeling is you shouldn't go to law school and put your struggling family deeply into debt for a job you already have.

I feel you on that, but I will get a substantial raise if I'm a lawyer, more options if my org goes under, and I'll stop getting static from USCIS when I represent people at infopass appointments.

twenty wrote:Neither is a good idea. UC Hastings has a lot of potential for a better scholarship since you'll be living and working in the bay area anyway; it's a bummer that's not coming through. Since you'll be doing IBR/LRAP/PSLF anyway, may as well go for Berkeley. Before you withdraw from UC Hastings, I'd tell them that they either have to up your scholarship to a full ride or else you plan on withdrawing.

If my organization continues to exist

That's kind of scary. Is this the only organization you want to work for, or would you be willing to do different legal services work?

Yes, I have asked Hastings for an increase in scholarship and am waiting a response. By the way, I am a big fan of your posts! Thanks for stopping by.
I am very attached to my org and community but I would be almost as happy in any nonprofit doing asylum.

FWIW, my sense is that for the kind of work you want, experience, commitment, and connections to the community - all of which you have - will count for a lot more than pedigree. It's still hard to pass up a school that opens a lot more doors, but Berkeley is a lot of money. That said, I don't know anything about Berkeley's LRAP program, which might help (since you are probably looking at lower-paid work).

(Also if that's a self tar, your kid is adorable.)

A. Nony Mouse wrote:FWIW, my sense is that for the kind of work you want, experience, commitment, and connections to the community - all of which you have - will count for a lot more than pedigree. It's still hard to pass up a school that opens a lot more doors, but Berkeley is a lot of money. That said, I don't know anything about Berkeley's LRAP program, which might help (since you are probably looking at lower-paid work).

(Also if that's a self tar, your kid is adorable.)

Thanks! That is my kid. Do you think Hastings with a little debt (like a little under a third), and a commute between school and work still wins out? I'm not too concerned with the doors aspect.

Unfathomableruckus wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

To be honest both your choices seem expensive to me. But someone else should comment.If I had to choose one maybe Berkeley because your life will be easier.

I am BIA accredited. So what do you think is best then? USF on a full scholarship with stips? No law school at all? I wanted to read the law instead (no law school and take the bar after four years) but I couldn't find anyone willing to commit.

You have already rejected USF with stips as an option? It may be enough for you with your goals and experience to go there, but I know nothing about the school.
I feel that minimizing debt is important. A quarter of a million dollars in debt is just scary to me. Can you negotiate away the stips?

On the other hand, I also feel that you will have the advantage of LRAP (assuming immigration public service exists after the next election) so Berkeley with no commute might be survivable. But LRAP means 10 years or 120 on time payments. If you lose your job because your organization closes, you can do PAYE but that won't count for LRAP. In theory, there is a risk you can't do that work for 10 years, will you be willing to do other qualifying work if needed?

I do like twentys idea of trying to get more from Hastings. Use whatever you can to leverage scholarships. Hadtings for less could be the winner, though I don't know what the commute is and I know some people don't like Hastings, but you already have job connections.

Maybe make a poll and change your heading to the school's you are considering. I know NYC schools but not California but there are lots of people here who do.

I gotta tell you OP. I have a very good feeling about you making this work for you. I completely understand your quandary here. I changed my mind 10 times while writing this. Good luck!

Yeah, I think I'd be happier with Hastings than USF - even though pedigree doesn't matter, I feel like Hastings is a better deal than USF. But I'm not great on California schools either.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, I think I'd be happier with Hastings than USF - even though pedigree doesn't matter, I feel like Hastings is a better deal than USF. But I'm not great on California schools either.

I appreciate your time Nony. I'll take your advice info consideration when it comes time to make a final choice in a month or so. Thanks!

Tls2016 wrote:

Unfathomableruckus wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:Do you need an expensive law degree to represent asylum cases? I know you are probably already an accredited representative. I'm just not sure what going to law school will give you.

To be honest both your choices seem expensive to me. But someone else should comment.If I had to choose one maybe Berkeley because your life will be easier.

I am BIA accredited. So what do you think is best then? USF on a full scholarship with stips? No law school at all? I wanted to read the law instead (no law school and take the bar after four years) but I couldn't find anyone willing to commit.

You have already rejected USF with stips as an option? It may be enough for you with your goals and experience to go there, but I know nothing about the school.
I feel that minimizing debt is important. A quarter of a million dollars in debt is just scary to me. Can you negotiate away the stips?

On the other hand, I also feel that you will have the advantage of LRAP (assuming immigration public service exists after the next election) so Berkeley with no commute might be survivable. But LRAP means 10 years or 120 on time payments. If you lose your job because your organization closes, you can do PAYE but that won't count for LRAP. In theory, there is a risk you can't do that work for 10 years, will you be willing to do other qualifying work if needed?

I do like twentys idea of trying to get more from Hastings. Use whatever you can to leverage scholarships. Hadtings for less could be the winner, though I don't know what the commute is and I know some people don't like Hastings, but you already have job connections.

Maybe make a poll and change your heading to the school's you are considering. I know NYC schools but not California but there are lots of people here who do.

I gotta tell you OP. I have a very good feeling about you making this work for you. I completely understand your quandary here. I changed my mind 10 times while writing this. Good luck!

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I'll get that poll up ASAP (which may be tomorrow morn, as I have to get the tot to bed and I've had some whiskey). I'm trying to negotiate Hastings up, and if I can get a full ride from them, if be very likely to take it and use the commute for reading. I'd be happy at any organization doing asylum for indigenous Guatemalans, or even working with indigenous activists in Guatemala, but that's a lofty goal. Actually, I'll confess that I have some aspirations of working with such activists to make Guatemala a better place for indigenous people. Is be willing to do other qualifying work. It's all a part of the same fight in my view, but I'm not willing to work for the other side (aka corporate or biglaw, even if I have to live in a cardboard box)
Thanks so much for all your thoughtful commentary. I appreciate it a lot.

Berkeley's employment numbers are fantastic, and they are known for (among other things) producing a lot of PI lawyers. If you ever want to work somewhere else, that is a great alumni network to be a part of. I know very little about LRAP (so that could change things), but I think Berkeley at sticker is a reasonable decision. You have this degree forever and Berkeley opens doors those other schools can't. As you said, it's Berkeley.

I do understand why you would pick the other options though. It's a hard decision. Best of luck

I was kind of on the fence about Berkeley before, but the more I think about it, the more okay I feel saying you should consider it at sticker. You seem like you know exactly what kind of public interest work you want to do (a big plus), you're aware of your surroundings enough to know what being stuck in a low-income position for ten years looks like, and other posters aren't wrong - Berkeley will open up doors in this particular field that UCH probably won't.

in Guatemala

This is something you should look into very closely and I don't know how much help I'd actually be here. PSLF (which Berkeley's modern LRAP is dependent upon) will typically only apply to people working for non-profits/government entities inside the United States. If you're working for a US non-profit in Guatemala, you're probably fine. If you're working for an immigration non-profit in the US, you're definitely fine. If you're working with political activists in Guatemala... that might be a problem. Not insurmountable of course, but definitely something to really dig down into before you take out a quarter of a million dollars in loans.

I would probably pass on USF with stips. USF without stips has potential, though - maybe call them up and ask them to remove the stipulations on your scholarship?

and I'll stop getting static from USCIS when I represent people at infopass appointments.

A word of caution that I wasn't actually very aware of until I started law school; the California Bar especially (but really all states) will come absolutely unglued if you're representing clients as a lawyer while in law school if you're not under the direct supervision of an attorney. Just be careful.