Yale vs. Stanford vs. Ruby Forum

[gerard]

Bumping this briefly for a little more feedback. Heard back from Yale and got grant amounts from Y and S, so I wanted to see if that changes anything. Here are the new options

Schools:
- Yale 15K grant (total COA ~205K)
- Stanford 15K grant (total COA ~235K)
- Chicago Ruby (total COA ~50K)
- Virginia Dillard (total COA ~90K) - Seems like a better law school experience than UChi and places well in fed clerkships

Financials:
I'm married and I've got a kid on the way (might explain why my COA estimates are a little higher than those of others). Will be financing almost all costs through loans.

Career goals:
I'm from Denver and I love the mountain west. We've got tons of family ties in Colorado, so I anticipate spending a good chunk of my career in midlaw out here (or government, public interest). I'm interested in a federal clerkship, but I'm also pretty debt-averse, and I'm not sure the added probability is worth 200k+. I'm split on academia (sounds like a really cool job, but could be boring and the law prof crowd doesn't seem great), so paying a ton extra just to keep that door open doesn't seem ideal.

As you can probably tell, I'm leaning toward the Ruby. I just want to see if I'm way off base here.

Thanks guys.

[rpupkin]

Your instincts are right: UChi w/ the Ruby. And it's not close.

If SLS gave you enough aid to get the COA difference down to under $50K, I'd start at least thinking about SLS as a possibility.

[Tiago Splitter]

For me it would take something pretty close to max grant aid from Stanford to make it the better choice. The Ruby is just so hard to beat.

[gerard]

Yeah? That's good to know. I feel pretty much the same way--Stanford sounds like an awesome experience, but maybe 50k awesome, not 200k awesome. Thanks for the feedback.

[Otunga]

50k vs 280k? Chicago and not even close. The odds are that you just get biglaw anyway, and 50k debt combined with biglaw? That's an excellent outcome. And of course, if you do land a federal clerkship at Chicago, all the better given your goals.

[hairbear7]

Chicago at 50k COA is like winning the lottery. This is an easy choice- congrats.

[kaiser]

Its not even a question. Chicago by a mile.

[LoganCouture]

Chicago, no doubt.

Full disclosure: I had the same choice and went the other way. Happy to PM you the specifics of my decision process.

[gerard]

Thanks for the input, everyone. It's good to know I'm not insane.

[WinterComing]

Fellow Ruby recipient 0L here. You should go to Chicago so our kids can be friends. (My wife's due date was earlier this week, though no baby just yet.)

[gerard]

Fellow Ruby recipient 0L here. You should go to Chicago so our kids can be friends. (My wife's due date was earlier this week, though no baby just yet.)

Wow, good luck! And congrats (on the baby and the Ruby). I'll probably see you in Chicago!

[jbagelboy]

Thanks for the input, everyone. It's good to know I'm not insane.

Congratulations. Take the Ruby--you will be so glad come 3L and the debt payments start looming, and even glad-er during your first clerkship or your first few years as an associate. Feel free to hit any of us up for firm and clerkship job hunting info out west.

[krads153]

This is a no brainer to me (Chicago), unless you come from money.

[Otunga]

This is a no brainer to me (Chicago), unless you come from money.

Even if he/she did, so what? It'd still make very little sense - that saved money could be invested elsewhere.

[Tls2016]

Chicago is a fantastic school at that price. You won the lottery in that one. Congrats.

[Pulsar]

Congrats on the kid. Kids are also very expensive though. I couldn't fathom trying to raise one (or more than one, if you are planning on a bigger family) while making loan payments on sticker debt. I think this makes the Ruby even more clear-cut than it usually is.

[philawsopher]

How is it that your COA at Chicago is so much less than at UVA? Do you have a Ruby but not a Dillard? Assuming you have or will have or Dillard (or could negotiate to full tuition) at UVA, I think Charlottesville would be cheaper than Chicago, for a family. UVA has very strong clerkship placement rates, and might be a better fit for a conservative if that's you (just an educated guess based on what you wrote).

Anyways, I voted Chicago based on your stated numbers. But if UVA would in fact be even cheaper, I'd probably switch my vote.

[Mullens]

Ruby's come with a yearly stipend. That accounts for the cost difference.

[rpupkin]

How is it that your COA at Chicago is so much less than at UVA? Do you have a Ruby but not a Dillard? Assuming you have or will have or Dillard (or could negotiate to full tuition) at UVA, I think Charlottesville would be cheaper than Chicago, for a family. UVA has very strong clerkship placement rates, and might be a better fit for a conservative if that's you (just an educated guess based on what you wrote).

Interesting comment. For years, Chicago had a reputation for being the most politically conservative of the top law schools. Is that no longer the case?

[WinterComing]

How is it that your COA at Chicago is so much less than at UVA? Do you have a Ruby but not a Dillard? Assuming you have or will have or Dillard (or could negotiate to full tuition) at UVA, I think Charlottesville would be cheaper than Chicago, for a family. UVA has very strong clerkship placement rates, and might be a better fit for a conservative if that's you (just an educated guess based on what you wrote).

Anyways, I voted Chicago based on your stated numbers. But if UVA would in fact be even cheaper, I'd probably switch my vote.

I'd guess OP's math went something like this:

$90K COA at UVA with Dillard — $45K Ruby stipend at Chicago + $5K Chicago is more expensive than Charlottesville = $50K COA at Chicago

Possible the difference between the schools should be slightly smaller, since maybe the cost of living gap is more pronounced than that, and I believe you have to pay taxes on the stipend, but I think OP is in the right ballpark on the numbers.

[philawsopher]

Ruby's come with a yearly stipend. That accounts for the cost difference.

Got it--I missed that

[philawsopher]

How is it that your COA at Chicago is so much less than at UVA? Do you have a Ruby but not a Dillard? Assuming you have or will have or Dillard (or could negotiate to full tuition) at UVA, I think Charlottesville would be cheaper than Chicago, for a family. UVA has very strong clerkship placement rates, and might be a better fit for a conservative if that's you (just an educated guess based on what you wrote).

Interesting comment. For years, Chicago had a reputation for being the most politically conservative of the top law schools. Is that no longer the case?

Download the paper cited in the article below and look at section 5 A. Based on alumni "political" ideologies (which obviously isn't the only indicator), Duke and UVA are the most conservative T14 schools by a fairly significant margin (though both are, still, graduating many more liberal alumni than conservative ones).

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/09/the-most ... and-firms/

I think Chicago (the university as a whole) is still known for its more conservative economics.

[RaceJudicata]

Go w/ chicago. Great city - and can be affordable/family friendly if you pick the right neighborhood. Also, inflate your COA numbers across the board.

From personal experience (and an extensive thread on the issue - can't find link), almost everyone takes on more debt/has a higher COA than they expected.

Regardless, Chicago is the pick

[krads153]

This is a no brainer to me (Chicago), unless you come from money.

Even if he/she did, so what? It'd still make very little sense - that saved money could be invested elsewhere.

I guess, but if you have 10 million in the bank, then who really cares how you spend 300k over three years if you're making 300k a year on investments alone....although not rational, that's my personal opinion, depending on how wealthy you are.

[gerard]

How is it that your COA at Chicago is so much less than at UVA? Do you have a Ruby but not a Dillard? Assuming you have or will have or Dillard (or could negotiate to full tuition) at UVA, I think Charlottesville would be cheaper than Chicago, for a family. UVA has very strong clerkship placement rates, and might be a better fit for a conservative if that's you (just an educated guess based on what you wrote).

Interesting comment. For years, Chicago had a reputation for being the most politically conservative of the top law schools. Is that no longer the case?

I'm actually not conservative, but I also don't think that would make a huge difference to me. I've never had any huge problems making friends or discussing issues with people who differ from me ideologically.