Lay prestige Forum
- earthabides
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Re: Lay prestige
This is not a list of lay prestige, they specifically say they're surveying legal professionals. The fact that Harvard wasn't #1 on the list should have been a dead giveaway loljbagelboy wrote:These are the dumbest of threads. This topic has been hashed to death over the past 10 years. Lay prestige is meaningless for your future--if you want lay prestige, go to an elite college or prep school.
The more or less definitive ranking of lay prestige is established by BusinessInsider: http://uk.businessinsider.com/law-schoo ... ?r=US&IR=T.
Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, Duke, Berkeley, Georgetown, Cornell, Chicago, NYU. Ivies, Duke, and Georgetown overrated, NYU and Chi underrated.
Harvard's at the top spot by a wide margin. The H bomb is real. Then the order gets a little shaky depending on what coast you're on.
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Re: Lay prestige
I'd say your opinion of someone's genuine curiosity is nosy and anti social.
- jumbo2016
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Re: Lay prestige
I'm from the east coast (hometown is upstate NY) and people are much more impressed when I tell them I got into Georgetown and UCLA than when I tell them I got into Michigan. Nobody from my hometown has even heard of Wash U and an acceptance to SUNY Buffalo law is seen as an incredible feat, next to godliness. I'm pretty used to it because nobody from my hometown has heard of my undergrad either
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Re: Lay prestige
Native of the same area. People love SUNY Buffalo up here for some reason. Seems like it's a solid regional school but way overhyped locally. I feel like Cornell doesn't get enough credit around here (and not just for law school).jumbo2016 wrote:I'm from the east coast (hometown is upstate NY) and people are much more impressed when I tell them I got into Georgetown and UCLA than when I tell them I got into Michigan. Nobody from my hometown has even heard of Wash U and an acceptance to SUNY Buffalo law is seen as an incredible feat, next to godliness. I'm pretty used to it because nobody from my hometown has heard of my undergrad either
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Re: Lay prestige
I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
- fliptrip
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Re: Lay prestige
But this is why the whole exercise can be seen as silly. I've lived everywhere you mention including the south and I have some big disagreements with you.krads153 wrote:I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
West Coast: Harvard...Yale/Stanford...Berkeley/Columbia/Duke/Georgetown...UCLA...USC...Penn/Cornell/Northwestern/Chicago
Midwest: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Michigan/Chicago/Northwestern/Duke...Penn/Cornell/Columbia...Notre Dame (ND has insular prestige. If you're not in certain circles, it's just a weird school with a good football team). Whoever said that Michigan is seen as just a football school is just wrong.
South: Harvard...Yale...Duke...UVA...Vanderbilt/Emory...and a mashup of the flagship state schools, I'm not kidding...UNC/Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas. Outside of Atlanta, southern folk will definitely NOT know anything about Stanford, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, Northwestern, or Chicago.
East Coast: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Penn/Columbia...Duke...Georgetown...UVA...Northwestern/Chicago/Cornell (upstate NY might as well be the midwest to an east coaster) and you can't ignore the prestige a school like BC has in Boston or a school like Villanova has in Philly.
But, again, I guess it's a little fun to talk about because sorting is an inexorable facet of the human condition, but this prestige thing is just nutty. For instance, there was actually a time when Tulane was considered a reasonable peer of UVA and Duke. It was what I remember as the first school to call itself the "Harvard of the south".
I think the truth of it is that there are only two schools with true enduring lay prestige that cuts across all boundaries, Harvard and Yale. And frankly, Yale is just lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as Harvard. Anything else is going to be highly context dependent.
- Poldy
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Re: Lay prestige
Lay prestige has got to be completely regional. For example, my undergrad is very well regarded where I'm from but where I live now, nobody outside of a couple industries has ever even heard of it.
- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Lay prestige
How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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Re: Lay prestige
What's up with UCLA being so overrated? I also really disagree with your assessment of Chicago. It was viewed as being on par with Northwestern, at least. People didn't want to attend (where fun goes to die), but it was respected. Duke also had more prestige than Cornell where I grew up, which was a little closer to Cornell than to Duke.krads153 wrote:I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
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Re: Lay prestige
Bolded is bullshit. Maybe if you go to the most rural areas of AL or MS, you might get blank looks by mentioning Stanford, but no way that's the typical response across the South as a whole.fliptrip wrote:But this is why the whole exercise can be seen as silly. I've lived everywhere you mention including the south and I have some big disagreements with you.krads153 wrote:I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
West Coast: Harvard...Yale/Stanford...Berkeley/Columbia/Duke/Georgetown...UCLA...USC...Penn/Cornell/Northwestern/Chicago
Midwest: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Michigan/Chicago/Northwestern/Duke...Penn/Cornell/Columbia...Notre Dame (ND has insular prestige. If you're not in certain circles, it's just a weird school with a good football team). Whoever said that Michigan is seen as just a football school is just wrong.
South: Harvard...Yale...Duke...UVA...Vanderbilt/Emory...and a mashup of the flagship state schools, I'm not kidding...UNC/Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas. Outside of Atlanta, southern folk will definitely NOT know anything about Stanford, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, Northwestern, or Chicago.
East Coast: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Penn/Columbia...Duke...Georgetown...UVA...Northwestern/Chicago/Cornell (upstate NY might as well be the midwest to an east coaster) and you can't ignore the prestige a school like BC has in Boston or a school like Villanova has in Philly.
But, again, I guess it's a little fun to talk about because sorting is an inexorable facet of the human condition, but this prestige thing is just nutty. For instance, there was actually a time when Tulane was considered a reasonable peer of UVA and Duke. It was what I remember as the first school to call itself the "Harvard of the south".
I think the truth of it is that there are only two schools with true enduring lay prestige that cuts across all boundaries, Harvard and Yale. And frankly, Yale is just lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as Harvard. Anything else is going to be highly context dependent.
- fliptrip
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Re: Lay prestige
You say it's bullshit, I say it's not. And we are left at the same place we started.Hikikomorist wrote:Bolded is bullshit. Maybe if you go to the most rural areas of AL or MS, you might get blank looks by mentioning Stanford, but no way that's the typical response across the South as a whole.fliptrip wrote:But this is why the whole exercise can be seen as silly. I've lived everywhere you mention including the south and I have some big disagreements with you.krads153 wrote:I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
West Coast: Harvard...Yale/Stanford...Berkeley/Columbia/Duke/Georgetown...UCLA...USC...Penn/Cornell/Northwestern/Chicago
Midwest: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Michigan/Chicago/Northwestern/Duke...Penn/Cornell/Columbia...Notre Dame (ND has insular prestige. If you're not in certain circles, it's just a weird school with a good football team). Whoever said that Michigan is seen as just a football school is just wrong.
South: Harvard...Yale...Duke...UVA...Vanderbilt/Emory...and a mashup of the flagship state schools, I'm not kidding...UNC/Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas. Outside of Atlanta, southern folk will definitely NOT know anything about Stanford, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, Northwestern, or Chicago.
East Coast: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Penn/Columbia...Duke...Georgetown...UVA...Northwestern/Chicago/Cornell (upstate NY might as well be the midwest to an east coaster) and you can't ignore the prestige a school like BC has in Boston or a school like Villanova has in Philly.
But, again, I guess it's a little fun to talk about because sorting is an inexorable facet of the human condition, but this prestige thing is just nutty. For instance, there was actually a time when Tulane was considered a reasonable peer of UVA and Duke. It was what I remember as the first school to call itself the "Harvard of the south".
I think the truth of it is that there are only two schools with true enduring lay prestige that cuts across all boundaries, Harvard and Yale. And frankly, Yale is just lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as Harvard. Anything else is going to be highly context dependent.
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Re: Lay prestige
Yeah those assumptions you're making are definitely valid.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Lay prestige
Go ahead and give me the top three reasons to give a shit about what someone who isn't in your industry thinks about where you went to school. I'll wait.Alive97 wrote:Yeah those assumptions you're making are definitely valid.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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Re: Lay prestige
I don't know that there's a top 3 but I don't necessarily think it makes someone insecure.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Go ahead and give me the top three reasons to give a shit about what someone who isn't in your industry thinks about where you went to school. I'll wait.Alive97 wrote:Yeah those assumptions you're making are definitely valid.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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Re: Lay prestige
Lets not go adding any new "Law Centers" into the mix. GULC is having a hard enough time staying number one without some trust-fund hippies encroaching.PeanutsNJam wrote:Missing Princeton Law and BrownUniversityLawCenter.
Last edited by Minnietron on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Lay prestige
Okay, fill in the blank for me. It is important to you what non-industry people think of your school because you are _________.Alive97 wrote:I don't know that there's a top 3 but I don't necessarily think it makes someone insecure.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Go ahead and give me the top three reasons to give a shit about what someone who isn't in your industry thinks about where you went to school. I'll wait.Alive97 wrote:Yeah those assumptions you're making are definitely valid.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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- earthabides
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Re: Lay prestige
Bragging Rights matter to some people I guess. I think It's kinda fun to think about and bullshit about on an anonymous forum. That's the only reason. If you don't care about lay prestige, there's a whole lot else on the internet to go check out lol.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Go ahead and give me the top three reasons to give a shit about what someone who isn't in your industry thinks about where you went to school. I'll wait.Alive97 wrote:Yeah those assumptions you're making are definitely valid.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:How insecure do you have to be to give a shit about things like this?trebekismyhero wrote:+1000pancakes3 wrote:dumb fucking thread.
The girls at the bars don't care where you want to law school, dorks.
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Re: Lay prestige
I think it does, Berkeley is confused as a prestigious private school pretty often outside of the west. It's the opposite affect of UPenn being confused as a state school.Hikikomorist wrote:I don't think Berkeley has any more prestige than Michigan/UVA.a93212 wrote:This thread has been made numerous times, but I'll bite. As another poster previously mentioned, lay prestige does not only account for the law school, but all of the institutions' schools (undergrad, business, law, medical, dental, etc).
My rankings (I'm from the Northeast, fwiw)
1. Harvard
2. Yale and Stanford
3. Columbia and Chicago
4. Duke and Penn
5. Northwestern
6. Cornell
7. Georgetown and Berkeley
non-prestigious T14 law schools: Michigan, NYU and UVA
- PeanutsNJam
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Re: Lay prestige
Who are you going to brag to? Girls in bars? Like I'll grant you that a strong pedigree may look good on a dating profile, but that's literally as far as the practicality of bragging rights go, and it's not gonna overcome a cocky, aspie personality and a fugly face. 10 times out of 10 a chick will pick a dude she likes and finds attractive who goes to Pontifical Catholic over some HLS bro who she thinks is a dick.
Brag to your high school acquaintances? I'll just tell you now they don't give a shit. If they thought you were smart, they won't be surprised you go to HLS. If they though you were dumb, they'll think you got in because of money/AA/luck/whatever.
Brag to your high school acquaintances? I'll just tell you now they don't give a shit. If they thought you were smart, they won't be surprised you go to HLS. If they though you were dumb, they'll think you got in because of money/AA/luck/whatever.
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Re: Lay prestige
gotta disagree with you. I know the west coast extremely well. Stanford is king. The only schools that would be thought of as more prestigious would be HLS and HMS (over SLS and SMS, respectively), and even then the difference is minor.fliptrip wrote:But this is why the whole exercise can be seen as silly. I've lived everywhere you mention including the south and I have some big disagreements with you.krads153 wrote:I think it heavily depends on the region, something like the following:
From West Coast perspective, it's like Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia/UCLA/USC.
From Midwest perspective, it's like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Northwestern/Notre Dame/Michigan/Columbia?
From East Coast perspective, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/Cornell/Duke/Georgetown.
I've lived all over the country, except the South, and honestly, I think people confuse Penn or Penn State uniformly in all regions and I don't thinK UVA or Chicago has that much lay prestige. I don't think NYU has any lay prestige outside of the East Coast....
West Coast: Harvard...Yale/Stanford...Berkeley/Columbia/Duke/Georgetown...UCLA...USC...Penn/Cornell/Northwestern/Chicago
Midwest: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Michigan/Chicago/Northwestern/Duke...Penn/Cornell/Columbia...Notre Dame (ND has insular prestige. If you're not in certain circles, it's just a weird school with a good football team). Whoever said that Michigan is seen as just a football school is just wrong.
South: Harvard...Yale...Duke...UVA...Vanderbilt/Emory...and a mashup of the flagship state schools, I'm not kidding...UNC/Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas. Outside of Atlanta, southern folk will definitely NOT know anything about Stanford, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, Northwestern, or Chicago.
East Coast: Harvard...Yale...Stanford...Penn/Columbia...Duke...Georgetown...UVA...Northwestern/Chicago/Cornell (upstate NY might as well be the midwest to an east coaster) and you can't ignore the prestige a school like BC has in Boston or a school like Villanova has in Philly.
But, again, I guess it's a little fun to talk about because sorting is an inexorable facet of the human condition, but this prestige thing is just nutty. For instance, there was actually a time when Tulane was considered a reasonable peer of UVA and Duke. It was what I remember as the first school to call itself the "Harvard of the south".
I think the truth of it is that there are only two schools with true enduring lay prestige that cuts across all boundaries, Harvard and Yale. And frankly, Yale is just lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as Harvard. Anything else is going to be highly context dependent.
- fliptrip
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Re: Lay prestige
Okay, I guess since you know the west coast extremely well, I'll go ahead and change my opinion...loljuzam_djinn wrote: gotta disagree with you. I know the west coast extremely well. Stanford is king. The only schools that would be thought of as more prestigious would be HLS and HMS (over SLS and SMS, respectively), and even then the difference is minor.
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Re: Lay prestige
I needed to give myself some clout, since I was dealing with someone who has "lived everywhere" and thus, clearly knew what he was talking aboutfliptrip wrote:Okay, I guess since you know the west coast extremely well, I'll go ahead and change my opinion...loljuzam_djinn wrote: gotta disagree with you. I know the west coast extremely well. Stanford is king. The only schools that would be thought of as more prestigious would be HLS and HMS (over SLS and SMS, respectively), and even then the difference is minor.
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Re: Lay prestige
Stanford is more prestigious than Harvard on the west coast. Full stop. And I think that's justified, considering it now has the best b-school, is on par with Harvard in medicine and law (though Stanford is much harder (more desirable?) to get into for both degrees), and blows Harvard out of the water in most graduate degrees in the science/engineering fields. I realize lay people aren't aware of these rankings and field-specific reputations, but they do trickle down over time. It's not hard to imagine Stanford surpassing Harvard in national reputation in the next fifty years.fliptrip wrote:Okay, I guess since you know the west coast extremely well, I'll go ahead and change my opinion...loljuzam_djinn wrote: gotta disagree with you. I know the west coast extremely well. Stanford is king. The only schools that would be thought of as more prestigious would be HLS and HMS (over SLS and SMS, respectively), and even then the difference is minor.
Also, lol at the person who said Berkeley is no more well-known/prestigious as an institution than Michigan/UVA. The undergrad has been the #1 public school in the US for like thirty straight years, and virtually every grad program on the campus is ranked in the top ten in its field. Internationally it is seen as on par with Harvard and Stanford, and even domestically I'd say it's up there reputation-wise with the lower-tier Ivies.
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