Top Law Schools

Money aside, which school takes the cake? I am interested in clerking and biglaw. I am not partial to either location.

They are peers. Where do you want to work?

urbanist11 wrote:They are peers. Where do you want to work?

Probably Chicago, NYC or DC

captainamerica wrote:

urbanist11 wrote:They are peers. Where do you want to work?

Probably Chicago, NYC or DC

Probably UVA then, but either one is defensible. As said they're peer schools. If money didn't matter, I would pick the one I would like being at the most for 3 years. Unless DC was your number 1 destination choice, then UVA would get a bigger bump

captainamerica wrote:

urbanist11 wrote:They are peers. Where do you want to work?

Probably Chicago, NYC or DC

If Chicago try for northwestern or UChicago. If nyc I get the sense (0L, feel free to correct) it doesn't matter as much but Cornell/Columbia/nyu are good options. If dc, I'd pick UVA. Berkeley can place nationally of course but you'll likely be paying more to go there which doesn't make sense if you don't want to practice on the west coast.

Why are you only considering these two schools? I'd try to narrow down your preferred market because it makes a big difference in the advice people will give you.

urbanist11 wrote:

captainamerica wrote:

urbanist11 wrote:They are peers. Where do you want to work?

Probably Chicago, NYC or DC

If Chicago try for northwestern or UChicago. If nyc I get the sense (0L, feel free to correct) it doesn't matter as much but Cornell/Columbia/nyu are good options. If dc, I'd pick UVA. Berkeley can place nationally of course but you'll likely be paying more to go there which doesn't make sense if you don't want to practice on the west coast.

Why are you only considering these two schools? I'd try to narrow down your preferred market because it makes a big difference in the advice people will give you.

Besides Georgetown, UVA and Berkeley are currently my acceptances in the T14. I was wait listed to UChicago and haven't heard back yet from Northwestern or Cornell.

Wait until you have all your offers in hand and then come back

Where are you from ? One thing that I think is a decent consideration when you have two even choices and neither places especially better in the markets you want is to think about where you are from. Consider going to the school that isn't in the region you are from (because you will probably be able to sell yourself in your home region regardless) but is located in a market where you don't have ties but could consider yourself living. While 2 of the markets you want are going to be logistically easier from UVA (DC and NYC) they aren't markets that are especially difficult to break into in terms of being biased about where you are from or the location of your school assuming it's a top school (and both of these are). With that being said, if you ever decided that you wanted to work in California, that is a market that is going to HEAVILY prefer Boalt grads to UVA alums. Just something to consider. People's interested/tastes often change over time/during law school.

NYC - probably can get from either
DC/Chicago - probably won't get from either unless you are closer to top of the class

I would say $$$ should be the most important factor.

krads153 wrote:NYC - probably can get from either
DC/Chicago - probably won't get from either unless you are closer to top of the class

I would say $$$ should be the most important factor.

This is surprising. I had thought that NYC was pretty much the most open of markets to the T-14. So, the ~20% of UVA grads who landed in NYC are reflective not of self selection, but of a bunch more grads who couldn't get a job there?

fliptrip wrote:

krads153 wrote:NYC - probably can get from either
DC/Chicago - probably won't get from either unless you are closer to top of the class

I would say $$$ should be the most important factor.

This is surprising. I had thought that NYC was pretty much the most open of markets to the T-14. So, the ~20% of UVA grads who landed in NYC are reflective not of self selection, but of a bunch more grads who couldn't get a job there?

I think maybe you misread

urbanist11 wrote:

fliptrip wrote:

krads153 wrote:NYC - probably can get from either
DC/Chicago - probably won't get from either unless you are closer to top of the class

I would say $$$ should be the most important factor.

This is surprising. I had thought that NYC was pretty much the most open of markets to the T-14. So, the ~20% of UVA grads who landed in NYC are reflective not of self selection, but of a bunch more grads who couldn't get a job there?

I think maybe you misread

Oooooops. Total RC fail. I'll go back into my shed in the woods now. LOL, thanks.

How will you be financing? (including cost of living)

I really don't think anyone will have any useful insight into this aside from you. In terms of job placement power, they're pretty much equals (respective to their markets). What separates the two is mostly their subjective features: their locations, atmosphere, particular fields of concentration and price tags, none of which anyone but you can decide is superior to the other.

BruceWayne wrote:Where are you from ? One thing that I think is a decent consideration when you have two even choices and neither places especially better in the markets you want is to think about where you are from. Consider going to the school that isn't in the region you are from (because you will probably be able to sell yourself in your home region regardless) but is located in a market where you don't have ties but could consider yourself living. While 2 of the markets you want are going to be logistically easier from UVA (DC and NYC) they aren't markets that are especially difficult to break into in terms of being biased about where you are from or the location of your school assuming it's a top school (and both of these are). With that being said, if you ever decided that you wanted to work in California, that is a market that is going to HEAVILY prefer Boalt grads to UVA alums. Just something to consider. People's interested/tastes often change over time/during law school.

True that.

Dude...those are two very different schools. Yea they're both very good public schools with huge DI sports programs, but that's probably where their cultural similarities end. Berkley and Charlottseville are also very different from each other. If the money ends up being equal and at the end of your cycle you're still deciding between these two, you should probably try to really research the culture of both schools and see which one is a better fit.

Budfox55 wrote:Dude...those are two very different schools. Yea they're both very good public schools with huge DI sports programs, but that's probably where their cultural similarities end. Berkley and Charlottseville are also very different from each other. If the money ends up being equal and at the end of your cycle you're still deciding between these two, you should probably try to really research the culture of both schools and see which one is a better fit.

But this is unlikely unless OP has parental/family support. I think UVA is more generous with scholarship and there's a huge COL difference.

I agree that, if money is equal, then pick based on culture and location. But it's really unlikely that money will be equal.

And if money isn't equal, always go with the money even if you like the culture of the other better. Because when you're paying back loans, you'll be very thankful you took the money.

And if money isn't equal, always go with the money even if you like the culture of the other better.

I disagree to some extent. I mean, sure, if you love the culture at Berkeley and want to live in the Bay Area, but are offered $100,000 at UVA, I think you'd be a fool to turn it down. At the same time, you will be spending three years of your life in the town you choose to live in, and happiness is worth something (to the extent you think you'd be happy in one place vis a vis the other). It's certainly not silly to turn down, say, a $10k/year scholarship at UVA if you want to live near San Francisco or vice versa if you want to live in Charlottesville. Only you can determine where the cutoff point is and what level of happiness each place could potentially bring.

SLS_AMG wrote:

And if money isn't equal, always go with the money even if you like the culture of the other better.

I disagree to some extent. I mean, sure, if you love the culture at Berkeley and want to live in the Bay Area, but are offered $100,000 at UVA, I think you'd be a fool to turn it down. At the same time, you will be spending three years of your life in the town you choose to live in, and happiness is worth something (to the extent you think you'd be happy in one place vis a vis the other). It's certainly not silly to turn down, say, a $10k/year scholarship at UVA if you want to live near San Francisco or vice versa if you want to live in Charlottesville. Only you can determine where the cutoff point is and what level of happiness each place could potentially bring.

I would have agreed with you before I started working, but honestly even a $30k loan (which is probably more like 35k upon repayment) means the difference between working one more year in biglaw or not. So think of it in the context of time rather than material goods.

The people I know at UVA loathe living in Charlottesville. So much so that they transferred or studied abroad or spend every thursday-sunday in DC.

But others love it. So, idk.

I would do Berkeley at equal cost every time, but UVA tends to be more generous, and if its substantially cheaper I'd bite the geography bullet and move to virginia for a bit

jbagelboy wrote:The people I know at UVA loathe living in Charlottesville. So much so that they transferred or studied abroad or spend every thursday-sunday in DC.

But others love it. So, idk.

I would do Berkeley at equal cost every time, but UVA tends to be more generous, and if its substantially cheaper I'd bite the geography bullet and move to virginia for a bit

Ironically, UVA just sent us admits a nice long email about how terrific it is to live in Charlottesville. It doesn't shock me in the least that Berkeley is better than C'ville, but I mean, Berkeley is completely adjacent to Oakland, and that place ain't nothing nice.

fliptrip wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:The people I know at UVA loathe living in Charlottesville. So much so that they transferred or studied abroad or spend every thursday-sunday in DC.

But others love it. So, idk.

I would do Berkeley at equal cost every time, but UVA tends to be more generous, and if its substantially cheaper I'd bite the geography bullet and move to virginia for a bit

Ironically, UVA just sent us admits a nice long email about how terrific it is to live in Charlottesville. It doesn't shock me in the least that Berkeley is better than C'ville, but I mean, Berkeley is completely adjacent to Oakland, and that place ain't nothing nice.

Actually, a lot of the parts of Oakland that are adjacent to Berkeley (like Rockridge/Elmwood) are pretty nice. And of course the heart of SF is a 20-minute BART ride away.

fliptrip wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:The people I know at UVA loathe living in Charlottesville. So much so that they transferred or studied abroad or spend every thursday-sunday in DC.

But others love it. So, idk.

I would do Berkeley at equal cost every time, but UVA tends to be more generous, and if its substantially cheaper I'd bite the geography bullet and move to virginia for a bit

Ironically, UVA just sent us admits a nice long email about how terrific it is to live in Charlottesville. It doesn't shock me in the least that Berkeley is better than C'ville, but I mean, Berkeley is completely adjacent to Oakland, and that place ain't nothing nice.

Oakland is where all the interesting, broke people from SF fled to. It's practically cooler than SF at this point. Uptown, Adams Point, Grand Lake, Temescal, etc. may as well be Brooklyn.

The only way I could see someone "loathing" life in CVille is if they have literally lived in a major top 10 metro their entire life and they have a lot of free time during law school so they're so relaxed that they are trying to find lots of night life and a beach and other fun things etc.