Did I mess up by EDing at WUSTL? Forum

[BWeez]

if you're not reapplying then id just go to WUSTL and drop out after 1L if your grades are top third or w/e. i guess coming out of wustl with 50~60k in debt isnt awful, but think of the opportunity cost.

Do you mean drop out as in transfer? I'm pretty set on at least trying.
The opportunity cost of wustl is really big for someone who wants to work in Chicago. Transferring to NU or UChicago, if I can, is probably worth the debt. If I can't, I think you're right, graduating from WUSTL with minimal debt isn't exactly a horrible situation. I'll get SOMEthing. Just maybe not where I want.

[03152016]

if ur committed to not wanting biglaw, wustl is prob fine here
provided ur flexible as to location/salary/practice area

if u want to potentially keep the biglaw option on the table, or u want to be more selective as to location/salary/practice area, withdraw
bl/fc is a measly 31% at wustl, not portable, and plenty of wustl grads have to take what they can get

really can't bump up gpa more?
ur at 3.04
u said u can bump up to 3.1 in 1 semester? so y can't u manage to eke out another .1 or .2?
multiple ppl with killer lsats and 3.4 or below have gotten $$ @ ccn, including myself

[BWeez]

really can't bump up gpa more?
ur at 3.04
u said u can bump up to 3.1 in 1 semester? so y can't u manage to eke out another .1 or .2?
multiple ppl with killer lsats and 3.4 or below have gotten $$ @ ccn, including myself

I ran the numbers on a GPA calculator. Assuming I do get what I need to be at 3.1 after this semester, I'd need 54 more credits of As to get to 3.3; 22 more to get to 3.2. I guess a 3.2 isn't impossible, but is it really gonna guarantee, or even provide a reasonable chance of a good $$ result at NU or Chicago? I kind of doubt it. Then there's the possible negative effects of the obvious disingenuousness of taking 6+ online bullshit classes at community college.
I'm very willing to be flexible about biglaw. Salary and practice area I'm also flexible. I'm less happy about being flexible about location, but it's not like I MUST work in Chicago. Maybe I'll have totally changed my tune after some time in STL and won't mind the prospect of a non-Chicago location at all. And maybe I'll decide I really do want Chicago enough to try and transfer; if it doesn't work out, I still won't be suicidal or anything.
Does this seem like a reasonable way of weighing options?

[Traynor Brah]

Here's my scheme for you, OP, since you haven't graduated yet. Do not graduate. If you have applied to graduate, withdraw. Withdraw from WUSTL. Then find the shittiest community college near you that gives out A+'s and take History of Rock 'n' Roll (and similar) online for like 30 credits a semester. Do that for year, and then BAM, you're sitting in Chicago.

This is not a good idea.

[landshoes]

I guess it is sort of a waste of time to sit out a year, but I'm not the one who applied ED to a school I don't really want to go to. You also don't have to get an "impressive" job or whatever, just a job. I'm always kind of amazed at much people will give up just to avoid getting a job.

Have you considered the lower-ranked Chicago schools? If you're willing to do something that isn't biglaw you might have better luck having all three years to network etc. instead of trying to get in from WUSTL. Those schools seem to have pretty good alumni networks in the city.

I know, I know, you don't want to take a year off. So go to WUSTL then.

[BWeez]

I guess it is sort of a waste of time to sit out a year, but I'm not the one who applied ED to a school I don't really want to go to. You also don't have to get an "impressive" job or whatever, just a job. I'm always kind of amazed at much people will give up just to avoid getting a job.

Have you considered the lower-ranked Chicago schools? If you're willing to do something that isn't biglaw you might have better luck having all three years to network etc. instead of trying to get in from WUSTL. Those schools seem to have pretty good alumni networks in the city.

I know, I know, you don't want to take a year off. So go to WUSTL then.

It's not at all that I don't want to get a job now - I plan on getting one (or more) and working as much as possible after grad and before law school, whether it's impressive or not. I just meant that the type of job I can get probably won't help much in admissions because it will likely suck - maybe I'm wrong about that. But I don't think I am - a crappy, or even "impressive" job for a year just doesn't seem like it will be a difference-maker for UChicago or NU with my stats.
I applied to those Chicago schools, but my scholarship prospects actually seemed way stronger at WUSTL than at schools like Loyola or IIT. That's why I decided ED was worth it if it meant a full ride, since I really don't want a lot of debt. Those lower ranked schools were essentially backups - the alumni network you bring up is a good point, but the opportunity difference at WUSTL vs. the backups outweigh it for me. Maybe that's a mistaken assessment on my part, but WUSTL is still a way better school than they are.
And it's not that I just don't want to take a year off - I genuinely don't see the benefit (for reasons outlined in my earlier post).

[Traynor Brah]

I think you're fine attending WUSTL with a full ride and that you're probably not going to get an outcome that is far and away better for your stats. You must understand that WUSTL with a fully is still a pretty big risk though, if working in Chicago is the goal. If you finish 1L top third, you can transfer to NU no problem, basically have had a one-third scholarship, and have a pretty legit shot at getting a good job in Chicago. If you do better, you'll be in a strong position w/o transferring. If you don't do particularly well, though (which you must assume, going in, as the most likely scenario), it's going to be a pretty serious struggle to find employment you'll be happy with in Chicago. But you won't have much debt, so it won't be the end of the world.

If there's not an employment path available to you that you find quite interesting/is relatively lucrative, I'd err on the side of taking the risk. If you do have other options you think you might enjoy, I would pretty strongly advise trying them out; this will always be here for you.

[Nekrowizard]

Here's my scheme for you, OP, since you haven't graduated yet. Do not graduate. If you have applied to graduate, withdraw. Withdraw from WUSTL. Then find the shittiest community college near you that gives out A+'s and take History of Rock 'n' Roll (and similar) online for like 30 credits a semester. Do that for year, and then BAM, you're sitting in Chicago.

This is not a good idea.

Hey, my shit would be flawless if he hadn't racked up 200 credit hours.

[landshoes]

I guess it is sort of a waste of time to sit out a year, but I'm not the one who applied ED to a school I don't really want to go to. You also don't have to get an "impressive" job or whatever, just a job. I'm always kind of amazed at much people will give up just to avoid getting a job.

Have you considered the lower-ranked Chicago schools? If you're willing to do something that isn't biglaw you might have better luck having all three years to network etc. instead of trying to get in from WUSTL. Those schools seem to have pretty good alumni networks in the city.

I know, I know, you don't want to take a year off. So go to WUSTL then.

It's not at all that I don't want to get a job now - I plan on getting one (or more) and working as much as possible after grad and before law school, whether it's impressive or not. I just meant that the type of job I can get probably won't help much in admissions because it will likely suck - maybe I'm wrong about that. But I don't think I am - a crappy, or even "impressive" job for a year just doesn't seem like it will be a difference-maker for UChicago or NU with my stats.
I applied to those Chicago schools, but my scholarship prospects actually seemed way stronger at WUSTL than at schools like Loyola or IIT. That's why I decided ED was worth it if it meant a full ride, since I really don't want a lot of debt. Those lower ranked schools were essentially backups - the alumni network you bring up is a good point, but the opportunity difference at WUSTL vs. the backups outweigh it for me. Maybe that's a mistaken assessment on my part, but WUSTL is still a way better school than they are.
And it's not that I just don't want to take a year off - I genuinely don't see the benefit (for reasons outlined in my earlier post).

There wouldn't be much of a benefit if you weren't currently locked in to WUSTL, but since you are, this admissions cycle is kinda fucked for you if you don't actually think it's a good idea to go to WUSTL. The benefit is not the work experience (although some places do like to see it, even if it's not amazing), the benefit is that sitting out a year might give you a better shot at what you want to do (work in Chicago) via you getting into a different school. Obviously that's not a guarantee, but since you were asking about whether or not you should go to WUSTL ED I assumed you thought there were other decent school options that you were interested in. Taking a year off would allow you to try to access those options.

[slizerd]

I would not assume that Chicago won't happen without applying. It does seem like a long shot but that doesn't make it not worth a try, especially if you're willing to pay sticker.

Going to WUSTL with the idea that you'll transfer to Chicago is not so great. If you don't do well you can't transfer and you're fucked job-wise.

Get a job, reapply next year.

So I should give up the full scholarship I have, try to get some sort of impressive job (there is really, really not much out there for people with just a BS in biology) and wait a year to try to get into UChicago, to pay sticker, when the chances of getting in with a 3.0x are basically nil? It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. Like, at all. Maybe I can try for ED at NU; that's also really unlikely with my GPA. It just is. Then WUSTL may very well not offer me a full scholarship again.
If I'm gonna be banking my future on slim chances of getting into UChicago next year, then it makes way more sense for me to try to do it by transferring. If I go to UChicago I pay sticker no matter what. I could try, as you suggest, applying fresh next year: I have an almost negligible chance of getting in, then I pay for 3 years sticker if I somehow do. Or I can get one year free at WUSTL, do well enough to transfer (higher likelihood of that than of getting into UChicago fresh), and pay for 2 years sticker. Maybe I don't do well enough to transfer to UChicago, but can transfer to NU instead. OK, fine. The only real possible benefit I'm giving up here is the slim chance of the ED scholarship at NU. There's no way I have a high enough chance of getting that with a 3.1 for it to be worth a year off. Maybe I can add a few LSAT points, but probably not. Again, not nearly a high enough chance for this to be worth it.
I understand that my ED WUSTL scenario is not ideal. But the alternatives being suggested, perhaps aside from skipping law school altogether, do not really make any sense. They seem worse! Going to WUSTL for free and doing as well as I can seems like the logical choice from here.

This post makes it seem like you've already convinced yourself that you didn't mess up by EDing with WUSTL (which is not a bad thing at all, I think maybe you just needed affirmation of your choice)

[BWeez]

This post makes it seem like you've already convinced yourself that you didn't mess up by EDing with WUSTL (which is not a bad thing at all, I think maybe you just needed affirmation of your choice)

Haha, maybe. This thread at least sowed just enough doubt to get to sign up for the February LSAT, just to see what happens. Signed up a couple minutes ago. I have a fee waiver so it'll cost nothing. Maybe I'll get a 178 and give myself more agonizing choices to make!
But you're right, I have been successfully convinced (maybe by myself, but I've gotten several PMs agreeing) that WUSTL makes the most sense as of now. If I retake and get like 171 or lower, it'll still make the most sense.

[slizerd]

This post makes it seem like you've already convinced yourself that you didn't mess up by EDing with WUSTL (which is not a bad thing at all, I think maybe you just needed affirmation of your choice)

Haha, maybe. This thread at least sowed just enough doubt to get to sign up for the February LSAT, just to see what happens. Signed up a couple minutes ago. I have a fee waiver so it'll cost nothing. Maybe I'll get a 178 and give myself more agonizing choices to make!
But you're right, I have been successfully convinced (maybe by myself, but I've gotten several PMs agreeing) that WUSTL makes the most sense as of now. If I retake and get like 171 or lower, it'll still make the most sense.

That's not a bad plan. The worst(?) thing that happens is that you'll increase your opportunities; even if you bomb it, you're still in a spot a lot of people would be envious of. Free tuition at a T20 as a splitter isn't a bad situation! Good luck whichever way you go

[totesTheGoat]

So I should give up the full scholarship I have, try to get some sort of impressive job (there is really, really not much out there for people with just a BS in biology) and wait a year to try to get into UChicago, to pay sticker, when the chances of getting in with a 3.0x are basically nil? It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. Like, at all. Maybe I can try for ED at NU; that's also really unlikely with my GPA. It just is. Then WUSTL may very well not offer me a full scholarship again.

What's the plan with the law degree? I agree that UChicago is a long shot, but with your bio degree a few years of work experience opens up patents as a career opportunity. As is, you're not really gonna get any bites for the good patent jobs.

If you're interested in corporate law or environmental law or something else non-patent, ignore my ramblings.

[RamTitan]

I guess it is sort of a waste of time to sit out a year, but I'm not the one who applied ED to a school I don't really want to go to. You also don't have to get an "impressive" job or whatever, just a job. I'm always kind of amazed at much people will give up just to avoid getting a job.

Have you considered the lower-ranked Chicago schools? If you're willing to do something that isn't biglaw you might have better luck having all three years to network etc. instead of trying to get in from WUSTL. Those schools seem to have pretty good alumni networks in the city.

I know, I know, you don't want to take a year off. So go to WUSTL then.

Interesting.....so what job you have before law school doesn't matter that much?

[landshoes]

I guess it is sort of a waste of time to sit out a year, but I'm not the one who applied ED to a school I don't really want to go to. You also don't have to get an "impressive" job or whatever, just a job. I'm always kind of amazed at much people will give up just to avoid getting a job.

Have you considered the lower-ranked Chicago schools? If you're willing to do something that isn't biglaw you might have better luck having all three years to network etc. instead of trying to get in from WUSTL. Those schools seem to have pretty good alumni networks in the city.

I know, I know, you don't want to take a year off. So go to WUSTL then.

Interesting.....so what job you have before law school doesn't matter that much?

Not for law school admissions. I mean, IDK what Yale thinks or whatever but the vast majority of law schools don't care as long as you don't have the poor judgment to say "oh I was lying on my mom's couch stoned for a year" or something like that.

[Nagster5]

There is no sit out->improve something->better outcome, for us.

Do a 3 year stint in the military -> free law school. There's your sit out and better outcome.

[PoopyPants]

There is no sit out->improve something->better outcome, for us.

Do a 3 year stint in the military -> free law school. There's your sit out and better outcome.

Seconded. There are many, many benefits to a stint in the military. If my officer package doesn't get picked up (they take one person per year), then I'll most likely be getting out. But I'm still really glad I served.

[sublime]

..

[Nagster5]

There is no sit out->improve something->better outcome, for us.

Do a 3 year stint in the military -> free law school. There's your sit out and better outcome.

While it works well for some, just enlist isn't practical for a good number of people, and probably isn't a great idea for the majority of people

Oh I agree, I would never push someone into the military for any reason other than a desire to serve, I'm just being a semantic ass and pointing out an exception to the very good advice above.

[Nagster5]

There is no sit out->improve something->better outcome, for us.

Do a 3 year stint in the military -> free law school. There's your sit out and better outcome.

Seconded. There are many, many benefits to a stint in the military. If my officer package doesn't get picked up (they take one person per year), then I'll most likely be getting out. But I'm still really glad I served.

Waiting on my FLEP results now, they said week of the 21st.

[PoopyPants]

There is no sit out->improve something->better outcome, for us.

Do a 3 year stint in the military -> free law school. There's your sit out and better outcome.

Seconded. There are many, many benefits to a stint in the military. If my officer package doesn't get picked up (they take one person per year), then I'll most likely be getting out. But I'm still really glad I served.

Waiting on my FLEP results now, they said week of the 21st.

Good luck. I will be putting in for the IPP FLEP this upcoming cycle. They literally take 1 person per year, and about 15-20 make board. So, yeah. Praying.