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[slizerd]

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[ColoBoul]

[quote="slizerd]

Really good advice/info, thank you! When you say regional flagship, would that include WUSTL?[/quote]

Sorry I meant state flagship. WashU like Notre Dame is in an unique posiition, as stated here, their employment stats are marginally better than the state flagships but they work best for people with worse numbers than you who are highly debt adverse and don't want to pay sticker price at a T14. Really even if you got the Moritz, the full tuition scholarship at OSU that includes a $2000 stipend it wouldn't be worth it barring some personal circumstances that would have to keep you in Ohio and more specifically Columbus. I would apply broadly to the T14, especially Michigan and Northwestern/UChicago and see who gives you the best offer. Again do not waste your application fees on Iowa or UMN. You could throw some apps to ND, OSU or WashU if you have the cash just to see but again realistically you need to be focused higher.

[norkanite]

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[goldenflash19]

Absolutely go with one of the T14's if you can get a full ride there. I would also add NW to the list, as it has a strong rep in the midwest.

NW/UMich both have great reputations in Cleveland. I would give them a slight edge over UVA/Penn but not really enough to offset a major COA difference if one would exist.

I really wouldn't go to tOSU. As others have said, you have to kill it there to even get the base looks you would from a T14. T14 grads coming to CLE are a scarcity- a bulk of kids at tOSU would be thrilled to get a biglaw job there and are going to fight for it. Not worth the risk you don't end up in the top 15/25% needed.

Also, I would recommend doing something in CLE 1L Summer (sounds like you already plan on, but just to be sure). I didn't work in CLE 1L summer, and the #1 question I got in interviews was about why I'd want to "come back" instead of going to a bigger city.

Good luck! (Go Browns!)

[FamilyLawEsq]

Check out the profiles of the members of Cleveland's largest law firms to get an idea of which law schools place well into these firms.

This is really good advice and I honestly feel stupid for not thinking of it. Thank you!

These are the law schools of the current associates of JD Cleveland:

Akron 4
Albany 1
American 1
Berkeley 1
Case Western 17
Cleveland State 13
Chicago Kent 1
Cincinnati 1
Connecticut 1
Denver 1
Detroit 1
Duke 3
Emory 1
Georgetown 2
Harvard 6
Illinois 3
Indiana 1
Iowa 1
Loyola 1
Michigan 5
Minnesota 1
North Carolina 1
Northwestern 1
Notre Dame 8
NYU 2
The OSU 12
Penn 2
Pittsburgh 1
SUNY 1
Texas 1
UVA 8
USC 1
Vanderbilt 1
William & Mary 1

[Medicine Man]

I would not recommend telling the hiring partner at Baker Hostetler that "Case sucks".

[FamilyLawEsq]

I would not recommend telling the hiring partner at Baker Hostetler that "Case sucks".

Agreed. Law Schools of current associates (not staff attorneys) at Baker Hostetler:

BC 1
Case 9
Cleveland State 4
Columbia 1
Howard 1
Michigan 3
UNC 1
Notre Dame 4
NYU 1
The OSU 4
Pitt 1
UVA 1
Yale 1

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[BigZuck]

I would not recommend telling the hiring partner at Baker Hostetler that "Case sucks".

I don't think I would tell anyone IRL that any school sucks. But seriously, you're the first person I've seen on TLS that warns against dissing a non-T14. There seems to be a T14 cult on here.

There's a cult of wanting people to go to the most appropriate school to get them the job they want at an acceptable price. You're not really comprehending what you're reading, and that's really scary.

This is not a decision to be made lightly, you need to do a lot more research and soul searching before deciding to go to law school.

[slizerd]

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[albanach]

There's a cult of wanting people to go to the most appropriate school to get them the job they want at an acceptable price. You're not really comprehending what you're reading, and that's really scary.

This is not a decision to be made lightly, you need to do a lot more research and soul searching before deciding to go to law school.

This is a good point. Lower ranked schools will produce some excellent lawyers each year, and in a market like Cleveland you are almost certainly going to be working both alongside and reporting up to some of them. For those lawyers, their school worked fantastically for them and I can't see anything to be gained from dissing their choice.

Here's what I think is important. Do you have strong ties to Cleveland? This is going to hold for almost every smaller legal market - new lawyers need trained and firms don't want to invest in training someone who will leave as soon as they have marketable skills.

If you have strong ties, go to the best school you can get into at a reasonable cost. Big Cleveland firms recruit widely from the T14 and your degree will be recognized. If you do not have strong ties but have another good reason to want to be in Cleveland, there may be big advantages to going to a local school. Bear in mind, however, that you will need to excel there, that there will be other very capable and competent students who you are competing against, and that the job prospects are nothing like those from the T14.

I'm a T14 grad with a Cleveland job. Factor my biases into your analysis of my comments as you please.

[BigZuck]

I would not recommend telling the hiring partner at Baker Hostetler that "Case sucks".

I don't think I would tell anyone IRL that any school sucks. But seriously, you're the first person I've seen on TLS that warns against dissing a non-T14. There seems to be a T14 cult on here.

There's a cult of wanting people to go to the most appropriate school to get them the job they want at an acceptable price. You're not really comprehending what you're reading, and that's really scary.

This is not a decision to be made lightly, you need to do a lot more research and soul searching before deciding to go to law school.

Regional schools that aren't T14 can do well getting people jobs in certain areas; I think a lot of people are more concerned with prestige than practicality.

You want a job in Ohio but are considering UNC. Not good.

You have numbers (is the LSAT score actually real though?) that can get full rides at T-14s and you're considering schools like Iowa. Not good.

You're overestimating the placement ability of regional schools while underestimating the difference in placement between T14s and the rest of the heap. Not good.

You aren't comprehending what people are writing and projecting something on to their posts for no apparent reason. Not good.

Once again, if you have an undying THIRST for JUSTICE that can only be quenched by working at a small firm or local government job in Cleveland then go to OSU. That's totally fine. But you have to KNOW that is what you want because your numbers could get you into a much higher ranked school. If your aspirations are vague (which they almost certainly are) then go to a T14 and leave your options as wide open as possible. Lean towards one of the Midwest T14s if you want. But someone with those numbers should have no problem going to a school like Northwestern for cheapsies. Going to a rando regional school like Iowa or Minnesota when you don't even want to work in the region that school places in would be a colossal mistake.

You really do need to figure out what kinds of jobs different schools place into, where they place into, and the debt load you would be carrying from all the schools in question. Right now your application strategy is just a weird combination of overly risk averse/pessimistic (a 170/4.0 going to WUSTL? Really?) and overly optimistic (Going to Iowa to get a job in Ohio? Really?).

[slizerd]

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[BigZuck]

Play around with http://www.mylsn.info. Check out Michigan, Northwestern, and Cornell. If those are actual numbers that you actually have then you should be fine.



eta: I see you saying the 173 thing in this thread but not other people saying it to you. Where did you get the 173 thing from? http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p8903218

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[albanach]

Yes, they're actual numbers. It's mostly TLS'ers in the LSAT study threads that are saying mid-170s is the only way to get a full ride at a T14; my current advisor recommended that I retake to get into the higher 170s as well.

Thank you for that chart, I would LOVE to go to Michigan especially

Is your goal to only go to a school that offers a free ride? I'd be cautious of such an approach.

Is a free ride from a school ranked 20-30 really worth more than a 30k/year scholarship from a T14? I guess it depends how risk averse you are, but unless you're getting living expenses covered too, you still have 60k of debt on graduation (assuming you don't have $60k in the bank or someone willing to cover those costs for you).

[norkanite]

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[Medicine Man]

The July 2015 Ohio Bar Exam results were released today and of the 779 passing scores approximately 10 of these successful applicants graduated from T14 schools. Not too many T14 grads seem to be interested in Ohio.


http://www.supremecourtofohio.gov/AttyS ... 292015.pdf

[foregetaboutdre]

The July 2015 Ohio Bar Exam results were released today and of the 779 passing scores approximately 10 of these successful applicants graduated from T14 schools. Not too many T14 grads seem to be interested in Ohio.


http://www.supremecourtofohio.gov/AttyS ... 292015.pdf

Yeah I noticed that too. Not too bad of a legal market considering OH has 1. Cleveland 2. Cinci 3. Columbus. All are pretty big metros.

[Mullens]

With those numbers you should be guaranteed the early decision full ride at NU, especially in light of their recent $100m gift. For other rides in the t6 youll probably want to retake, but I doubt it's worth it at that point.

I'm debating so hard about applying to that, I just don't know if I can get past the "what if" of really considering other schools

I EDed NU two years ago (current 2L) and in your situation I would not recommend it. I'm a huge proponent of it for splitters but you're well over both medians at NU and I would be shocked if you don't get more than the $150k scholarship if you put together a solid application (especially in light of the $100m gift).