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Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:19 am**

LSAT 167
GPA 3.9/4.0

Will I be able to apply for T14 ?

Thanks,

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:46 am**

To lsac.org to schedule a retake

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:53 am**

Looking forward to meeting you next year at Cornell. I'll give you my outlines

Also, retake.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:58 am**

Mack.Hambleton wrote:To lsac.org to schedule a retake

This. Check out mylsn.info for more info.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:12 am**

Post removed.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:41 am**

Yes, you'll be competitive for several lower T-14 law schools. Any post-undergraduate work experience ? If so, Northwestern is worth an application. Georgetown, Cornell, & Michigan are also well worth the application effort.
As noted above, retaking the LSAT for a few extra points opens up the T-6 while making generous scholarship offers likely within the bottom half of the T-14.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:48 pm**

The problem is that I don't think I can get higher score...

Is it ok to get lower score?

Thanks,

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:52 pm**

If you cannot score higher you are going to need a lot from softs, which can happen. Though realistically one of the pushing factors would have to be URM or solid WE. If you lack both of those then work really hard on those essays and make sure your LORs are fantastic. You would get into some of the lower ones probably but a lot closer to sticker than is ideal.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:18 pm**

shump92 wrote:If you cannot score higher you are going to need a lot from softs, which can happen. Though realistically one of the pushing factors would have to be URM or solid WE. If you lack both of those then work really hard on those essays and make sure your LORs are fantastic. You would get into some of the lower ones probably but a lot closer to sticker than is ideal.

I would like to retake but I am a little bit scared. So is it okay to get a lower score?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:21 pm**

chestnut90 wrote:
shump92 wrote:If you cannot score higher you are going to need a lot from softs, which can happen. Though realistically one of the pushing factors would have to be URM or solid WE. If you lack both of those then work really hard on those essays and make sure your LORs are fantastic. You would get into some of the lower ones probably but a lot closer to sticker than is ideal.
I would like to retake but I am a little bit scared. So is it okay to get a lower score?

Why are you scared of an exam? you already did good with a 167, just add 2-3 more points and have a better cycle I don't see why you would have anything to fear have some confidence in your abilities you got a great GPA so you're obviously smart

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:22 pm**

chestnut90 wrote:
shump92 wrote:If you cannot score higher you are going to need a lot from softs, which can happen. Though realistically one of the pushing factors would have to be URM or solid WE. If you lack both of those then work really hard on those essays and make sure your LORs are fantastic. You would get into some of the lower ones probably but a lot closer to sticker than is ideal.
I would like to retake but I am a little bit scared. So is it okay to get a lower score?

Only retake when you know you will get a higher score. Tons of threads here offer studying advice.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:42 pm**

OP your stats are basically the same as mine were. I applied late and the only school in the T14 I applied to was Duke, and I was wait-listed there.

If you get a worse score on a retake it won't hurt your chances. Schools care about your highest take. Put your best effort into studying.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:22 pm**

Retake. And no, it will not matter if you score lower. Don't merely slither into a T14 when you can get accepted with fat schollies with a 170/3.9x

You're welcome,

Posted: **Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:54 am**

Id say it depends on your softs and the quality of that 3.9. If everything else is stellar, you may have some solid shots at T14 with moneyb

I think retake is the right choice, since it can really only help you. If you do worse, schools which would accept a 167 will only care about your highest score.

But, to further provide context, with a 168/3.9 I did get full rides to Northwestern (not ED) and UVA. Also accepted to Columbia, UChicago, and wait listed at Harvard. With a 167, you'd probably get a few T14 acceptances, although scholarships might be hard to find. That being said, I should have retaken the lsat and so should you.

Posted: **Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:27 pm**

Retake.
The classic TLS refrain. It used to annoy me so much pre-law school to see that inevitably posted in response to a 0L. But OP, you MUST retake. I had a 167/3.9 (admittedly with pretty good softs) and had gotten D/M/V/Gtown -- after a retake I ended up at Y/S. A retake from your exact position (more or less) literally changed my life.
Schools DO NOT care about multiple LSAT scores. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Good luck OP! Study hard.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:43 am**

Plainsman11011 wrote:Retake.
The classic TLS refrain. It used to annoy me so much pre-law school to see that inevitably posted in response to a 0L. But OP, you MUST retake. I had a 167/3.9 (admittedly with pretty good softs) and had gotten D/M/V/Gtown -- after a retake I ended up at Y/S. A retake from your exact position (more or less) literally changed my life.
Schools DO NOT care about multiple LSAT scores. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Good luck OP! Study hard.

I agree that retaking is the best idea here, but I can't help but laugh at this comment. If you're graduating with six figure debt from Y/S (and I don't know - maybe you're not), you're still just as screwed as the next person. Going to law school is not some 'life changing" experience at all - it's not like winning the lottery/getting rich.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 pm**

krads153 wrote:
Plainsman11011 wrote:Retake.
The classic TLS refrain. It used to annoy me so much pre-law school to see that inevitably posted in response to a 0L. But OP, you MUST retake. I had a 167/3.9 (admittedly with pretty good softs) and had gotten D/M/V/Gtown -- after a retake I ended up at Y/S. A retake from your exact position (more or less) literally changed my life.
Schools DO NOT care about multiple LSAT scores. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Good luck OP! Study hard.
I agree that retaking is the best idea here, but I can't help but laugh at this comment. If you're graduating with six figure debt from Y/S (and I don't know - maybe you're not), you're still just as screwed as the next person. Going to law school is not some 'life changing" experience at all - it's not like winning the lottery/getting rich.

Graduating with 6 figure debt from Y vs. 6 figure debt from MIchigan or Cornell definitely qualifies as "changed my life" material.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:36 pm**

pittsburghpirates wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:To lsac.org to schedule a retake
The way this was phrased made me laugh, but this is TCR OP. Don't waste an awesome GPA on a 167, especially if you left points on the table.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:05 pm**

ndirish2010 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
Plainsman11011 wrote:Retake.
The classic TLS refrain. It used to annoy me so much pre-law school to see that inevitably posted in response to a 0L. But OP, you MUST retake. I had a 167/3.9 (admittedly with pretty good softs) and had gotten D/M/V/Gtown -- after a retake I ended up at Y/S. A retake from your exact position (more or less) literally changed my life.
Schools DO NOT care about multiple LSAT scores. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Good luck OP! Study hard.
I agree that retaking is the best idea here, but I can't help but laugh at this comment. If you're graduating with six figure debt from Y/S (and I don't know - maybe you're not), you're still just as screwed as the next person. Going to law school is not some 'life changing" experience at all - it's not like winning the lottery/getting rich.
Graduating with 6 figure debt from Y vs. 6 figure debt from MIchigan or Cornell definitely qualifies as "changed my life" material.

You're still likely going to work the same shitty job. Yale gives you a better shot at landing biglaw/clerkships, but firm jobs are still generally shitty. And what do clerks do after clerkships? Generally firms. So you're just going to a school that gives you a higher chance of ending up in a shitty job? Makes sense to me...

Why not just take the money and do fed gov/PI/etc.? I don't think people understand what it means to have six figure debt - it is debilitating in every conceivable way, and frankly, there is not enough financial upside in law whatsoever to compensate for it (unless you're a SCOTUS clerk). (Given, I think Yale might be okay with its unusual loan repayment plan, but I don't think Harvard or Stanford are worth sticker...)

There is VERY little financial upside in law, especially given the high burnout rate/cost of schools/etc. Most law jobs are sheer grinding, forever - as in it does not get better even when you're senior. If you don't care about money, and you like working a lot, forever, then law is a good career for you. Just keep in mind the vast majority of law jobs are NOT 9 to 5 (even public interest) and you will be making not so great money unless you are a magical unicorn and become partner at a biglaw firm.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:16 pm**

Yale gives people a better shot at ending up at non-firm jobs like PI and fedgov. In fact, Yalies tend not to go to big firms. So your comments about law jobs are actually a good reason to try to go to Yale.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:19 pm**

I don't think taking on that much debt for a lowish paying job makes any sense at all. But yes, Yale has an unusual loan repayment plan so it might work out, but seriously - jobs straight out of college pay more than those jobs, so why go to law school at all if you're not SERIOUSLY committed to X cause or whatever? Just think that 0Ls don't understand what it means to take out six figure loans and not have any money...

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:58 pm**

I am doing public interest (although a far different path than most on TLS would associate with PI). The opportunities for such jobs at HYS are so great and plus the LRAP. I have no debt from ND due to scholarship and a bit of parent help, but it's kind of crazy to think that my job actually wouldn't qualify for our LRAP at all (I make 55k). Pretty sure that would be 100% repayment from H.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:32 am**

ndirish2010 wrote:I am doing public interest (although a far different path than most on TLS would associate with PI). The opportunities for such jobs at HYS are so great and plus the LRAP. I have no debt from ND due to scholarship and a bit of parent help, but it's kind of crazy to think that my job actually wouldn't qualify for our LRAP at all (I make 55k). Pretty sure that would be 100% repayment from H.

Maybe, but you'd still have to live like a pauper for whatever number of years. And there are plenty of jobs straight out of college that pay more than 55k a year (at least in what I studied).

Most kids I know who are doing PI (at least from my alma mater) come from rich families (parents funding all tuition and fees, giving them COL when they are working for rent, buying them 2-3 million dollar apartments, etc.). This obviously makes things a lot easier - they aren't working for the money. I'm just saying most 0Ls don't know what they're getting into, and if they don't have rich parents (unlike in my experience, most people who do PI), then it will be very difficult for them to survive financially if they take out six figure debt.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:35 pm**

krads153 wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:I am doing public interest (although a far different path than most on TLS would associate with PI). The opportunities for such jobs at HYS are so great and plus the LRAP. I have no debt from ND due to scholarship and a bit of parent help, but it's kind of crazy to think that my job actually wouldn't qualify for our LRAP at all (I make 55k). Pretty sure that would be 100% repayment from H.
Maybe, but you'd still have to live like a pauper for whatever number of years. And there are plenty of jobs straight out of college that pay more than 55k a year (at least in what I studied).

Most kids I know who are doing PI (at least from my alma mater) come from rich families (parents funding all tuition and fees, giving them COL when they are working for rent, buying them 2-3 million dollar apartments, etc.). This obviously makes things a lot easier - they aren't working for the money. I'm just saying most 0Ls don't know what they're getting into, and if they don't have rich parents (unlike in my experience, most people who do PI), then it will be very difficult for them to survive financially if they take out six figure debt.

Definitely not wealthy parents here, just have enough money to help keep me out of debt with substantial scholarship. Also, I really like my 55k job, so I'm happy with my decision. But I can imagine it would be very difficult for someone with 6 figure debt and no LRAP. To me, that points in favor of going to a top school with a good loan repayment program.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:10 pm**

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