Michigan or Penn? Forum

[Hikikomorist]

That's what I was thinking a 168 is 95th percentile and at that level its almost a 50 50 shot to go up or down per the stats. Better to take the offers and run. The only way that your choices get significantly better is if you move into the YHS area and to do that your going to need a significant LSAT boost. Of course its all just opinion and what you want out of your education.

Waiting a year allows for two retakes, assuming you have them available to you. This would give you a 75 percent chance of improving, and every single point near that level is meaningful.

I hear you here and if you feel that you were no prepared than by all means retake. That said if you honestly did all you can and you scored within the range of your practice tests I would not retake a 168. I am perfectly ok with the choice of UPenn at total cost of 37k and Michigan at making 18k a year. I think I may have been able to get a 170 but how much better are my options going to be? Columbia at full price? I still think I take the other two options over that one.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking to your specific offers, which are fantastic, but to the general discussion of whether to retake in most situations with a score of 168. You should definitely keeps those offers, but I think they were a bit unusual for a 168.

[marowl0]

That's what I was thinking a 168 is 95th percentile and at that level its almost a 50 50 shot to go up or down per the stats. Better to take the offers and run. The only way that your choices get significantly better is if you move into the YHS area and to do that your going to need a significant LSAT boost. Of course its all just opinion and what you want out of your education.

Waiting a year allows for two retakes, assuming you have them available to you. This would give you a 75 percent chance of improving, and every single point near that level is meaningful.

I hear you here and if you feel that you were no prepared than by all means retake. That said if you honestly did all you can and you scored within the range of your practice tests I would not retake a 168. I am perfectly ok with the choice of UPenn at total cost of 37k and Michigan at making 18k a year. I think I may have been able to get a 170 but how much better are my options going to be? Columbia at full price? I still think I take the other two options over that one.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking to your specific offers, which are fantastic, but to the general discussion of whether to retake in most situations with a score of 168. You should definitely keeps those offers, but I think they were a bit unusual for a 168.

Oh ok I think it has a lot to do with my military experience to be honest and thank you. I get what you are saying about the retaking and largely agree I was just saying it needs to be a case by case thing rather than all 168s should retake. So out of curiosity what school would you choose between penn and Michigan if your goal was government work (federal) or PI?

[BigZuck]

Why are 2 T14 schools both normally T10 schools bad options for a 166/4.o? I have a 168/3.96 are they bad options for me as well? I am not being a smart ass just wondering the logic behind that assertion.

They aren't. People here just have convoluted thinking.

Nope

OP got an offer to go to two top 10 law schools with a half tuition scholarship. And you're saying that's not good enough?

He/she could give up a year and maybe get the rest of the scholarship dollars, but what's the cost of doing that? Perhaps not worth it.

Chances of going up from the 93rd percentile of the LSAT is probably pretty slim.

Tuition at Penn is almost 60K. 30K would be a half ride.

But yes, I don't think 200K debt is worth it. That's what I'm saying.

I think better scholarship and/or school is definitely worth retaking and reapplying

Of course, the OP won't do that. But it's good info for future 0Ls who read this thread. When you're sitting on like a 4.0/166 and its, like, September, make sure you sign up for the December LSAT.

I think the chances of squeezing out a few more points are quite high. It's a couple more correct answers.

What if 168 is the second try? And in order to re-take, one must delay law school for a year and keep a job they don't want, live in a place they don't want, etc.? Re-taking is not the solution then.

People get drunk on "re-take" advice here.

Then take it a 3rd time. And the 168 might even do the trick

I don't have much sympathy for people who are impatient. I retook when I was in my late 20s and working a low paying job. It's no big deal, if you can't deal with that then that's on you and your immaturity.

166/4.0 is an auto retake.

I mean, obviously the OP won't retake (that's pretty clear if you read their profile). But that's the correct answer. Hopefully someone, somewhere will head that advice when they are in a similar situation.

Also lets not pretend that 75K at a lower T14 is some amazing outcome. It's not particularly difficult to squeeze significantly more out of places like Cornell these nights.

[Hikikomorist]

That's what I was thinking a 168 is 95th percentile and at that level its almost a 50 50 shot to go up or down per the stats. Better to take the offers and run. The only way that your choices get significantly better is if you move into the YHS area and to do that your going to need a significant LSAT boost. Of course its all just opinion and what you want out of your education.

Waiting a year allows for two retakes, assuming you have them available to you. This would give you a 75 percent chance of improving, and every single point near that level is meaningful.

I hear you here and if you feel that you were no prepared than by all means retake. That said if you honestly did all you can and you scored within the range of your practice tests I would not retake a 168. I am perfectly ok with the choice of UPenn at total cost of 37k and Michigan at making 18k a year. I think I may have been able to get a 170 but how much better are my options going to be? Columbia at full price? I still think I take the other two options over that one.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking to your specific offers, which are fantastic, but to the general discussion of whether to retake in most situations with a score of 168. You should definitely keeps those offers, but I think they were a bit unusual for a 168.

Oh ok I think it has a lot to do with my military experience to be honest and thank you. I get what you are saying about the retaking and largely agree I was just saying it needs to be a case by case thing rather than all 168s should retake. So out of curiosity what school would you choose between penn and Michigan if your goal was government work (federal) or PI?

I guess I'd go with Michigan, mainly for the money. You really don't have a bad choice in front of you, though, so just pick whichever one you like more, taking into account the money.

[marowl0]

Thanks its a really tough decision for me I need to flip a coin lol

[BigZuck]

Thanks its a really tough decision for me I need to flip a coin lol

For people having trouble following:

This thread was originally about the OP

Now it is about the poster from this thread:
http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p8637160

I was confused as to what was happening so hopefully that helps someone else

[marowl0]

Then take it a 3rd time. And the 168 might even do the trick

I don't have much sympathy for people who are impatient. I retook when I was in my late 20s and working a low paying job. It's no big deal, if you can't deal with that then that's on you and your immaturity.

166/4.0 is an auto retake.

I mean, obviously the OP won't retake (that's pretty clear if you read their profile). But that's the correct answer. Hopefully someone, somewhere will head that advice when they are in a similar situation.

Also lets not pretend that 75K at a lower T14 is some amazing outcome. It's not particularly difficult to squeeze significantly more out of places like Cornell these nights.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying and understand that you are trying to get OP the best possible outcome for them, so good on you. With that said I just don't think that you can blanket say anything is ever an "auto-retake." I also retook, well canceled, my first score and then got a 168 on my second try. I know deep down that I did everything I could to study for that second test. The 168 I got was in the range that I was scoring, granted the tail end but still in range. I was tempted to retake to be honest. However, after I was extremely honest with myself I felt that the only way that I was going to improve was going to be an easier LSAT (AKA luck) and with a harder one my 168 could have been a 167 or 166. Could I have gotten a 170 probably, though I don't think it would have been anything more than luck if I had, and that luck was not worth the equal chance of getting a lower score.

[BigZuck]

Then take it a 3rd time. And the 168 might even do the trick

I don't have much sympathy for people who are impatient. I retook when I was in my late 20s and working a low paying job. It's no big deal, if you can't deal with that then that's on you and your immaturity.

166/4.0 is an auto retake.

I mean, obviously the OP won't retake (that's pretty clear if you read their profile). But that's the correct answer. Hopefully someone, somewhere will head that advice when they are in a similar situation.

Also lets not pretend that 75K at a lower T14 is some amazing outcome. It's not particularly difficult to squeeze significantly more out of places like Cornell these nights.

I understand what you are saying and understand that you are trying to get OP the best possible outcome for them, so good on you. With that said I just don't think that you can blanket say anything is ever an "auto-retake." I also retook, well canceled, my first score and then got a 168 on my second try. I know deep down that I did everything I could to study for that second test. The 168 I got was in the range that I was scoring, granted the tail end but still in range. I was tempted to retake to be honest. However, after I was extremely honest with myself I felt that the only way that I was going to improve was going to be an easier LSAT (AKA luck) and with a harder one my 168 could have been a 167 or 166. Could I have gotten a 170 probably, though I don't think it would have been anything more than luck if I had, and that luck was not worth the equal chance of getting a lower score.[/quote]




Quoting got messed up somehow.

Anyway, the downside is you lose 300 bucks or whatever the cost it is to take the test again

You get that score with that gpa, you insta-sign up for a retake at http://www.lsac.org

That's what you do

EZ game

The OP doesn't have a full ride to either of these schools like you do so this is getting kind of confusing for people watching at home

[krads153]

If your dream job is PI, then you're going to have to Get a Job Through Networking, so I'd go to Mich since there are more PI grads. (I know because my spouse is in PI.) The main way you get a PI or fed gov job is through networking.

And frankly, some federal clerkships require networking. The federal judge I worked for only hired clerks that he already knew through summer internships/friends/etc. He didn't bother reading any of the random applications he received through OSCAR.

That said, I'd probably retake until you get a full ride at a PI friendly school since PI jobs pay shit.