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NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:19 am
by sonant
Pretty last minute decision, but just wanted to get more input:
-The schools you are considering
NYU vs UPenn
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
Based on the COA calculator:
NYU $157.5k ($62.5k scholly)
UPenn $94k ($105k scholly)
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Self-financed. My parents are helping out a little, about 13k a year for living expenses.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From So-Cal. Would like to return eventually (LA), but I consider NYC my next choice.
-Your general career goals
Either Big Law or PI. Currently leaning towards Big Law, but would like the option to transition to PI in the long run.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
LSAT: 169
GPA: 3.92
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
2
My heart says NYU, because I've always wanted to live in New York and prefer NYU overall, but my head says Penn because of COA. Not sure which places better in CA though. Thoughts? Is my head right?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:36 am
by BigZuck
Penn is the no brainer choice here, although I'd definitely retake in June to squeeze some more blood out of those bloodsuckers.
Please do tell me that you're retaking in June
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:06 pm
by Kinky John
What happened with Berkeley?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:51 pm
by sonant
Kinky John wrote:What happened with Berkeley?
I applied for a matching scholarship but was denied. Couldn't justify going to Berk at sticker
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:59 pm
by CanadianWolf
Penn is clearly the better option financially. Nevertheless, if your dream is to live in NYC, then you need to press NYU for more scholarship money.
Have you visited both schools ?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:21 pm
by BigZuck
BigZuck wrote:Penn is the no brainer choice here, although I'd definitely retake in June to squeeze some more blood out of those bloodsuckers.
Please do tell me that you're retaking in June
No but seriously, you're retaking in June right?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:27 pm
by Ohiobumpkin
I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:45 pm
by hearsay77
sonant wrote:Is my head right?
yes
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:03 pm
by 03152016
Ohiobumpkin wrote:I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
what?
nyu releases location data for grads nationwide, 2013 nalp table 14
penn only does that for 3 states, all of them on the east coast, 2014 aba 509
comparing 509 to 509, all of penn's most common destinations are east coast
but nyu's second most common destination is california
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:00 am
by Mack.Hambleton
theyre peers, should be easy to get biglaw from either. I'd go with the cheaper option, you can live in NYC after and pay off your loans faster.
I don't think either have an advantage for CA from what I can tell
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:11 am
by sonant
Thanks everyone for your input.
BigZuck wrote:BigZuck wrote:Penn is the no brainer choice here, although I'd definitely retake in June to squeeze some more blood out of those bloodsuckers.
Please do tell me that you're retaking in June
No but seriously, you're retaking in June right?
Haha I wasn't planning on it. I already took it twice, and I have an additional no show/absent on my record, so I'm not quite sure how many more retakes are considered appropriate.
CanadianWolf wrote:Penn is clearly the better option financially. Nevertheless, if your dream is to live in NYC, then you need to press NYU for more scholarship money.
Have you visited both schools ?
The offer I currently have with NYU is a revised offer after sending them my Penn scholly info. Was honestly hoping for more, but I just got off the waitlist this past week, so I'm guessing they're not super willing to send money my way anyways.
I've visited Penn, and was okay with it. I mean I wasn't in love with it, but didn't hate it either. Seemed like a decent place to live for three years. I haven't visited the actual NYU campus, but I've been around the Village area in NYC. Liked it a lot, but can't say anything definite about the actual school or the people.
Brut wrote:Ohiobumpkin wrote:I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
what?
nyu releases location data for grads nationwide, 2013 nalp table 14
penn only does that for 3 states, all of them on the east coast, 2014 aba 509
comparing 509 to 509, all of penn's most common destinations are east coast
but nyu's second most common destination is california
Mm, I really only applied to East or West coast schools, and as mentioned earlier, Berk wasn't an option at sticker. I went to UCLA undergrad, and though I have nothing against the school, I would personally be pretty miserable there for another three years.
I've looked at the 509 data as well, but Penn seems to send a comparable percentage of people to CA according to this chart on their website:
https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/images/1 ... 14-regions
So I'm honestly not really sure whether or not either school has a distinct advantage over the other in terms of employment in CA. Or how much of a leg up going to NYU will be on my employment options in the long run. Unless anyone has evidence saying otherwise?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:45 am
by MadwomanintheAttic
This will be crazy advice given TLS standards, but I'm going to vote NYU. Both schools are great options and will position you well for BigLaw, but there's something to be said for the environment. If NYC is where you want to live for law school and you enjoyed it over Philly, I'd say go.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:41 am
by philly33
Brut wrote:Ohiobumpkin wrote:I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
what?
nyu releases location data for grads nationwide, 2013 nalp table 14
penn only does that for 3 states, all of them on the east coast, 2014 aba 509
comparing 509 to 509, all of penn's most common destinations are east coast
but nyu's second most common destination is california
Class of 2014 stats
NYU sent 70.1% in NY
Penn had less than that (68.7%) in all of NY, PA and DC
Penn also sent more (9.1 v 7.5%) to Cali.
Both are great schools and very similar in placement power. However, when one school places more than 2/3 of its class in one state, it's not crazy to say "NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn."
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:51 am
by 03152016
philly33 wrote:Brut wrote:Ohiobumpkin wrote:I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
what?
nyu releases location data for grads nationwide, 2013 nalp table 14
penn only does that for 3 states, all of them on the east coast, 2014 aba 509
comparing 509 to 509, all of penn's most common destinations are east coast
but nyu's second most common destination is california
Class of 2014 stats
NYU sent 70.1% in NY
Penn had less than that (68.7%) in all of NY, PA and DC
Penn also sent more (9.1 v 7.5%) to Cali.
Both are great schools and very similar in placement power. However, when one school places more than 2/3 of its class in one state, it's not crazy to say "NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn."
but it's clearly advice about placement power, no?
let's not pretend penn is a great place to get to west coast because grads are more dispersed
that's 100% b/c they don't have a home market
if you're west coast or bust, go to hys or a west coast school
if you're ok with working in ny, either school is fine
but penn offers zero advantage in getting to west coast. they're dispersed b/c there's no strong home market, not b/c CA is clamoring for penn grads (they aren't)
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:57 am
by 03152016
op wants to return to ca, and frankly boalt or stanford makes a lot more sense here
also, although those are acceptable scholarships, op is in reverse splitter territory and could do much better than either of these offers with a retake
if i were her i'd reapply broadly with a retake
also if i were her i'd go straight back to the negotiating table with boalt, if she hasn't withdrawn already
the best kept secret in fin aid is that "final decisions" are not always final decisions
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:18 pm
by POTUSorSCOTUS
Between the 2, Penn. In general, Berk.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:33 pm
by philly33
Brut wrote:philly33 wrote:Brut wrote:Ohiobumpkin wrote:I would argue Penn here, not just because Penn is going to be cheaper, but also because NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn. Both place moderately well outside their respective regions, but Penn (I get the impression) has more regional diversity with where they're graduates end up landing. Have you considered UCLA at full-ride or something closer to west coast at full ride?
what?
nyu releases location data for grads nationwide, 2013 nalp table 14
penn only does that for 3 states, all of them on the east coast, 2014 aba 509
comparing 509 to 509, all of penn's most common destinations are east coast
but nyu's second most common destination is california
Class of 2014 stats
NYU sent 70.1% in NY
Penn had less than that (68.7%) in all of NY, PA and DC
Penn also sent more (9.1 v 7.5%) to Cali.
Both are great schools and very similar in placement power. However, when one school places more than 2/3 of its class in one state, it's not crazy to say "NYU is more exclusively East Coast focused than Penn."
but it's clearly advice about placement power, no?
let's not pretend penn is a great place to get to west coast because grads are more dispersed
that's 100% b/c they don't have a home market
if you're west coast or bust, go to hys or a west coast school
if you're ok with working in ny, either school is fine
but penn offers zero advantage in getting to west coast. they're dispersed b/c there's no strong home market, not b/c CA is clamoring for penn grads (they aren't)
How does Penn not have a home market? Depending on your definition, NYC and/or Philly apply. But yeah, it's much more complicated than the stats suggest, which is why I pointed out your poor use of them in the previous post.
The person you were replying too also didn't mention anything about placement power. What they said was Penn graduates end up in more regionally diverse places than NYU grads, which seems true. Then they went on to say that a west coast school would be the better option. So they made the point you were trying to make anyways, you just felt the need to use bad stats to defend NYU against Penn for some reason.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:05 pm
by 03152016
no offense, but anyone with above a third grade reading comprehension level would understand that when a poster tells someone to go to penn because "penn is less exclusively east coast" and "penn has more regional diversity" they're talking about placement power
there's little point in arguing about this, you clearly can't grasp things that aren't spoon fed to you.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:08 pm
by ymmv
Brut wrote:no offense, but anyone with above a third grade reading comprehension level would understand that when a poster tells someone to go to penn because "penn is less exclusively east coast" and "penn has more regional diversity" they're talking about placement power
there's little point in arguing about this, you clearly can't grasp things that aren't spoon fed to you.
Says the genius who just claimed Penn doesn't have a home market.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:09 pm
by 03152016
i clarified and said "strong home market"
it's not like philly does a ton of hiring
where do you go again ymmv?
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:28 pm
by 03152016
philly33, are you the same guy from this thread?
http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... ?p=8507172
just wondering how much i should trust your opinion about who's using "bad numbers"
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:57 pm
by WeeBey
Mack.Hambleton wrote:theyre peers, should be easy to get biglaw from either. I'd go with the cheaper option, you can live in NYC after and pay off your loans faster.
I don't think either have an advantage for CA from what I can tell
I wouldn't go so far to say they're peers, but NYU isn't worth anywhere near 60k more than Penn (I'd cap it at 30k, personally). Looking through the OCI threads, it seems that although Penn places about as many students into biglaw as CCN, the more selective firms are willing to dig deeper into CCN classes than at Penn. It also seems that CCN students end up with more offers. However, this seems to only be the case at the highly selective firms, so once you're median and below, theyre probably isnt any difference.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:47 pm
by NorCalLaw
Go to Penn, they've had very good numbers in recent years and you'll regret the $60k when loans start coming due. I think the only thing potentially worth $60k more than Penn would be Y/H/S, and even that would be a case-by-case inquiry.
Brut wrote:no offense, but anyone with above a third grade reading comprehension level would understand that when a poster tells someone to go to penn because "penn is less exclusively east coast" and "penn has more regional diversity" they're talking about placement power
there's little point in arguing about this, you clearly can't grasp things that aren't spoon fed to you.
No reason to be a dick.
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:54 pm
by OhBoyOhBortles
BigZuck wrote:Penn is the no brainer choice here, although I'd definitely retake in June to squeeze some more blood out of those bloodsuckers.
Please do tell me that you're retaking in June
Re: NYU ($) vs Penn ($$)
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:43 am
by stoopkid13
Mack.Hambleton wrote:theyre peers, should be easy to get biglaw from either. I'd go with the cheaper option, you can live in NYC after and pay off your loans faster.
I don't think either have an advantage for CA from what I can tell
Could live in NYC after but would it be more difficult to move to CA once you start working as opposed to right out of school? I feel like if OP wants to live in NY but work in CA, go to NYU.