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USF with scholarship or SCU
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:11 pm
by mochimo
1
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:20 pm
by BigZuck
mochimo wrote:I am working at a big law firm in the South Bay and I think there's a chance they would take me as an attorney once I graduate provided I go to a decent program.
What is this thought based on?
How are you quantifying "a chance"?
And how are you defining "decent program"?
Make no mistake, these are two of the very worst law schools in existence. I'm not sure they are justified if they are totally free unless you truly have a guaranteed job. I can't think of any big northern CA firms that would happily hire someone from one of these schools unless they absolutely crushed their 1st year grades.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:43 pm
by Traynor Brah
no and no. what zuck said. you're dreaming, dude.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:46 pm
by adil91
USC=SCU?
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:17 pm
by stego
adil91 wrote:USC=SCU?
USF = University of San Francisco
SCU = Santa Clara University
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 6:18 pm
by rpupkin
mochimo wrote:I've been admitted to both USF and SCU. Considering that I have a 2.44 undergrad GPA / 156 LSAT, I consider it a miracle I'm admitted to either. Must be the resume, maybe? No idea...
You may have no idea, but I have one: USF and SCU are desperate for paying students because applicants are slowly realizing that these law schools are terrible investments for anyone interested in working as a lawyer. The fact that these schools are admitting students with your numbers—with USF even offering you a sizable scholarship—should tell you something. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but you need to to remain sober here. You're on the verge of making a poor life decision.
Look, if the law firm you're working at now said "you'll have a job here if you get a law degree and pass the bar," then USF with that scholarship would be ok. But it doesn't sound like your situation is nearly that certain. Don't do it.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:15 pm
by Redamon1
Unfortunately those are not good schools, and turning them down this far down the rabbit hole is hard to do (though it's definitely the right thing to do). Fortunately you found TLS in time to get a full sense of the consequences of attending these schools. They will most likely put you in high debt without offering viable employment options upon graduation. If you haven't already, you should spend some time browsing this website:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/santaclara/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... isco/2014/
Study hard and retake the LSAT if you are set on law school, or consider other career options.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:40 pm
by PoopNpants
"Noooooo don't do it, please don't do it" - Drake voice
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:40 pm
by ManoftheHour
Neither. Don't go and retake.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:42 pm
by ManoftheHour
PoopNpants wrote:
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:18 pm
by NorCalLaw
You need at least a 165 to begin opening even the longshot doors. Keep working where you're at and keep studying/retaking until you hit a high enough score to, e.g., get a full ride at SCU and go through with $0 in debt.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:28 pm
by mochimo
BigZuck wrote:mochimo wrote:I am working at a big law firm in the South Bay and I think there's a chance they would take me as an attorney once I graduate provided I go to a decent program.
What is this thought based on?
How are you quantifying "a chance"?
And how are you defining "decent program"?
Make no mistake, these are two of the very worst law schools in existence. I'm not sure they are justified if they are totally free unless you truly have a guaranteed job. I can't think of any big northern CA firms that would happily hire someone from one of these schools unless they absolutely crushed their 1st year grades.
BigZuck
I talked to the lawyers I work with and they said they would support me in trying to get into law school. Two of the lawyers I work with regularly (one of whom is a partner) wrote recommendation letters for me. Also, 3 of the new hires at my firm this year came from Santa Clara after working as summer associates last year. I'm not guaranteed a job as a lawyer of course, but these are reasons why I feel like I do have a chance. I don't have the grades to get into Stanford or Berkeley and even if I do push back another year to study to take the LSAT again, no guarantee I will do any better so for me, this is a case of making the best hand with the cards you've got.
Re: USF with scholarship or SCU
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:36 pm
by AReasonableMan
There's a difference b/w writing you a letter of recommendation and giving you a job. They may like you, and want you to be happy. Writing you a letter of recommendation is a small favor, and different from giving you job. I don't think a 156 and these schools is that far fetched. You may be above the median, or it's possible the chance your firm did take you back (even if only 5%) is valuable to schools that have sub-5% placement. From their perspective, USNews rankings aren't as valuable as it once was and people pay more attention to the raw employment #'s. If you're a law school dean at USF looking long term, somebody working for a Fortune 500 company or at a big firm before law school may be more valuable than a 160.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:40 pm
by ManoftheHour
mochimo wrote:
BigZuck
I talked to the lawyers I work with and they said they would support me in trying to get into law school. Two of the lawyers I work with regularly (one of whom is a partner) wrote recommendation letters for me. Also, 3 of the new hires at my firm this year came from Santa Clara after working as summer associates last year. I'm not guaranteed a job as a lawyer of course, but these are reasons why I feel like I do have a chance. I don't have the grades to get into Stanford or Berkeley and even if I do push back another year to study to take the LSAT again, no guarantee I will do any better so for me, this is a case of making the best hand with the cards you've got.
That does not really mean much. Unless they flat out said they would totally hire you, what they say does not even slightly indicate they will hire you. Of course they'll support you to get into law school. What employer would not do that unless you were a shit worker? Getting a LOR doesn't come close to indicating whether they will hire you or not.
With regards to the three people that made it from SCU, that is not close to a likely outcome. Every year, people near the top of even bad schools find good jobs.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/santaclara/
Last year, 10% of SCU grads ended up in large firms. This means 90% did not. Furthermore, only 35.2% of the last graduating class found jobs as lawyers. Not talking about great jobs, just ANY job that required a JD. 35.2%. Let that sink in. You are way more likely to not end up as an attorney than getting a JD required job.
Re: USF with scholarship or SCU
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:41 pm
by ManoftheHour
Also, you don't have to get into Berk or Stanford to stand a chance. Get a 170+ and you can go to a T-14. Or get high enough of a LSAT score and go to UC Davis for free/close to free. If you're aiming for NorCal, UC Davis for cheap should be the lowest you should ever go.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:27 pm
by rpupkin
mochimo wrote:BigZuck wrote:mochimo wrote:I am working at a big law firm in the South Bay and I think there's a chance they would take me as an attorney once I graduate provided I go to a decent program.
What is this thought based on?
How are you quantifying "a chance"?
And how are you defining "decent program"?
Make no mistake, these are two of the very worst law schools in existence. I'm not sure they are justified if they are totally free unless you truly have a guaranteed job. I can't think of any big northern CA firms that would happily hire someone from one of these schools unless they absolutely crushed their 1st year grades.
BigZuck
I talked to the lawyers I work with and they said they would support me in trying to get into law school. Two of the lawyers I work with regularly (one of whom is a partner) wrote recommendation letters for me. Also, 3 of the new hires at my firm this year came from Santa Clara after working as summer associates last year. I'm not guaranteed a job as a lawyer of course, but these are reasons why I feel like I do have a chance. I don't have the grades to get into Stanford or Berkeley and even if I do push back another year to study to take the LSAT again, no guarantee I will do any better so for me, this is a case of making the best hand with the cards you've got.
I don't get you, OP. If your goal is to work at this firm, and if you're talking to the firm's lawyers and summer associates about law school, why are you asking us whether to go to USF or Santa Clara? Why don't you ask them? We're not going to be able to tell you about the hiring practices of this unnamed firm.
What we can tell you is that the majority of graduates of both of these law schools end up with a lot of debt and no legal job nine months after graduation. So, based on what we know, we're going to tell you that "making the best hand with the cards you got" means not going to law school. If you're dealt a 7-2 off suit, the best decision is to fold.
Re: USF with scholarship or SCU
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:40 pm
by Hikikomorist
.
Re: USF with scholarship or SCU
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:15 pm
by Johann
ask the partners where you should go.
Re: USF with scholarship or USC
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:01 am
by usn26
mochimo wrote:I don't have the grades to get into Stanford or Berkeley and even if I do push back another year to study to take the LSAT again, no guarantee I will do any better so for me, this is a case of making the best hand with the cards you've got.
Yes but you have other cards you can play. You could continue to work, in a job, where you are employed, and making money (which is more than most graduates of those schools can say). You could also hold out, study, retake the LSAT, and save thousands
and go to a better school with maybe a half a chance at becoming a real lawyer. You could join the Army and at least go to these schools for free. You don't
need to invite disaster like this.