Top Law Schools

Since I messed up this cycle by applying late with low LSAT/GPA, I'd like to hear traditional wisdom from intelligent TLSers. Feel free to talk me out of attending either of the schools. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


-My Personal COAs

Cardozo: $100,000
St. John's: $50,000

Will have no debt incurred during three years in law school.



-Where you are and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties

I'm an international applicant from Asia. Have ties in major markets (e.g. eastern Asia) and expect to transition to In-House after a few years practice in U.S. I spend most of my 20s in legal fields, have two years experience as an legal specialist at a tech company and possess both LL.B. and LL.M. degree from my home country and U.S.


-Your general career goals

I don't prefer specific fields of practice but have strong interest in international trade laws/antitrust/dispute resolution. BigLaw/Mid-size experience in U.S. is strongly preferred but not a must.



-Your LSAT/GPA numbers

159/156/157, 2.82

good for you. i got waitlisted by cardozo.. hmm. still waiting.

Both these schools won't serve for big law.

megliter wrote:good for you. i got waitlisted by cardozo.. hmm. still waiting.

Thanks. Keep the faith and expect the best. Look forward to your good news.

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Both these schools won't serve for big law.

That's why I hesitate at this point.

Honestly, if these are your choices, I would continue gaining work experience. Perhaps practicing law in the US may not be suitable for you. What is your current job?

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Honestly, if these are your choices, I would continue gaining work experience. Perhaps practicing law in the US may not be suitable for you. What is your current job?

Legal specialist at a tech company, mostly doing compliance/import & export/contract drafting and negotiation work. The pay is good and it's a stable position, but I expect to do more than this before I am getting too old. Ideally I'll be able to land a job at local big firms/companies (in Asia) with a J.D., which would bring my career path to a different level. Both Cardozo and St. John's are good schools that consistently put graduates into PI/Gov./small firms, but they probably wont carry me far enough in my target market if I don't get biglaw/midlaw after graduation.

So I am kind of stuck on this. Either attending one of them and hope for the best result or withdraw from both and gaining more WE.

If you're fluent in an in-demand language like Mandarin it might give you a slight boost for biglaw firms with heavy Asia work. You still probably need like top 10-15% from Cardozo to really have a good shot at biglaw, and those are tough odds. St. John's the odds are even worse, more like top 5%. I guess I wouldn't even consider St. John's if I were you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Cardozo is worth $100K COA if you only want biglaw.

blsingindisguise wrote:If you're fluent in an in-demand language like Mandarin it might give you a slight boost for biglaw firms with heavy Asia work. You still probably need like top 10-15% from Cardozo to really have a good shot at biglaw, and those are tough odds. St. John's the odds are even worse, more like top 5%. I guess I wouldn't even consider St. John's if I were you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Cardozo is worth $100K COA if you only want biglaw.

Seems Cardozo over St. John's if I am attending. Thanks for your great advice.

clin29 wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote:If you're fluent in an in-demand language like Mandarin it might give you a slight boost for biglaw firms with heavy Asia work. You still probably need like top 10-15% from Cardozo to really have a good shot at biglaw, and those are tough odds. St. John's the odds are even worse, more like top 5%. I guess I wouldn't even consider St. John's if I were you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Cardozo is worth $100K COA if you only want biglaw.

Seems Cardozo over St. John's if I am attending. Thanks for your great advice.

Have a backup plan. Are you talking about lit or transactional work?

Try to do research on boutiques/midlaw firms that have Asia-related practices, and also know which biglaw firms specialize in Asia (I think Loeb & Loeb is one, for example -- Beijing and Hong Kong offices are pretty busy I think).

Figure out whether there's any other kind of legal work you'd be happy with.

And gun like crazy with respect to grades. Honestly ESL people often have a tough time with law school exams -- it's entirely writing-based. You don't seem to write English badly but it's hard to say. So be honest in your self-assessment, if this is the path you're choosing.

blsingindisguise wrote:

clin29 wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote:If you're fluent in an in-demand language like Mandarin it might give you a slight boost for biglaw firms with heavy Asia work. You still probably need like top 10-15% from Cardozo to really have a good shot at biglaw, and those are tough odds. St. John's the odds are even worse, more like top 5%. I guess I wouldn't even consider St. John's if I were you, but that doesn't necessarily mean Cardozo is worth $100K COA if you only want biglaw.

Seems Cardozo over St. John's if I am attending. Thanks for your great advice.

Have a backup plan. Are you talking about lit or transactional work?

Try to do research on boutiques/midlaw firms that have Asia-related practices, and also know which biglaw firms specialize in Asia (I think Loeb & Loeb is one, for example -- Beijing and Hong Kong offices are pretty busy I think).

Figure out whether there's any other kind of legal work you'd be happy with.

And gun like crazy with respect to grades. Honestly ESL people often have a tough time with law school exams -- it's entirely writing-based. You don't seem to write English badly but it's hard to say. So be honest in your self-assessment, if this is the path you're choosing.

I expect to do transactional/non-lit work but I'm open to lit as well. Thank you so much for this amazing input, it's really helpful. I'll definitely think this through in a couple of days.

clin29 wrote:Since I messed up this cycle by applying late with low LSAT/GPA

This should be the end of it. Retake and apply earlier next cycle. I wouldn't risk the opportunity cost of three years at either of these schools for your goals.