Stanford v. Yale for Academic and IP interests Forum

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think you're underestimating the importance of academic connections and specialization in academia. It doesn't matter who teaches your course on cybercrime if you want to practice. It can matter very much who teaches your course on cybercrime if you want to do research and publish on cybercrime. Profs' strengths and expertises in their fields really don't matter to the average student but can matter a lot for academia. I know legal academia doesn't do "advisors" the way PhD programs do, but it doesn't mean having someone in that kind of role isn't still important.

No one's saying a hiring committee is going to turn their nose up at a Yale grad with pertinent publications. I think really we're saying he's going to have a better shot at getting those publications with the profs at Stanford.

[Br3v]

I think you're underestimating the importance of academic connections and specialization in academia. It doesn't matter who teaches your course on cybercrime if you want to practice. It can matter very much who teaches your course on cybercrime if you want to do research and publish on cybercrime. Profs' strengths and expertises in their fields really don't matter to the average student but can matter a lot for academia. I know legal academia doesn't do "advisors" the way PhD programs do, but it doesn't mean having someone in that kind of role isn't still important.

No one's saying a hiring committee is going to turn their nose up at a Yale grad with pertinent publications. I think really we're saying he's going to have a better shot at getting those publications with the profs at Stanford.

But does OP really? You correctly note the difference between PhD and JD programs as far as advisors, and I think that's a relevant consideration. But if OP writes under any tenured/track prof at Yale, that's going to be sufficient. Unless OP think s/he is going to be the next Chemerinsky of tech, I don't think the marginal difference is going to matter. Also, factor in OP's commitment to tech law, when s/he hasn't even been exposed to the doctrinal classea yet (only you, OP, know how committed you are to the field).

[Br3v]

I guess my point is that Yale has the institutional capacity to help OP in many ways, SLS certainly has some capacity, though marginally less and more concentrated. Seems like a risk (not necessarily a completely prohibitive one) to go to California and hope some rockstar tech prof will take you under their wing. The numbers seem safer at YLS. Again, either choice seems like a good one though.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I just disagree that that's how you would choose if your priority really is to develop an academic agenda in a specific field in which Yale has fewer/less renowned profs. If you don't have any specific academic field in mind, sure, but I think you would be doomed trying to get academia without having a specific area identified before you get to law school. It's not like figuring out what kind of law you want to practice by taking courses throughout law school - you need to come in with a research plan and focus if you want the best chance at getting articles out and carving out an academic niche for yourself. I'm sure some people pull it off, but it's going to be really hard. One of the reasons why so many profs also have PhDs is that the PhD provides time and training to get out well-placed articles for going on the legal market.

[Instinctive]

If you do decide you want Yale, have you spoken to them about your aid award at SLS? YLS gave me more in aid when I was deciding so they are generally open to looking at this type of thing.

And I chose SLS also. AFTER I was deposited at Yale. So no, you're not crazy (IMO).

[Br3v]

IMO, bottom line OP, if you go to either, create a publication record, and make serious attempts to become an academic, I think either is a great option. If you love one over the other, go!

[myspiritanimal]

If you do decide you want Yale, have you spoken to them about your aid award at SLS? YLS gave me more in aid when I was deciding so they are generally open to looking at this type of thing.

And I chose SLS also. AFTER I was deposited at Yale. So no, you're not crazy (IMO).

Or you're both crazy...

[abl]

You can't just "write under" any professor. Professors will generally agree to supervisor students in areas related to their expertise. If you want to publish on [x] area of law, and there's no professor at a law school who specializes in [x] area of law, you're going to have problems finding professors to mentor you, to guide you in your scholarship, and to champion you when you ultimately get on the market.

I think the discussion regarding academia on TLS is usually pretty far off base. What law school you go to makes three large differences: (1) it impacts the development of your scholarship, (2) it impacts your post-law school opportunities, and (3) it impacts your hiring possibilities directly. All three are incredibly important. I'm not sure if in any area Yale trumps Stanford nearly as clearly as those on this board would imply.

(1) Probably the #1 factor in getting a tenure track law job is publication record. Professors at top schools are generally on the cutting edge in their fields. Taking classes, RAing, and generally interacting substantively with the professors who are shaping the development of law gives you a big step-up in terms of finding a topic and understanding how to develop that topic. That said, with the way professor hiring works, I'm skeptical that there's any noticeable quality difference between YLS professors and SLS professors (or professors at any other T6 or even T14 school for that matter). There may be cultural differences impacting the ways professors interact at SLS and YLS, but so far I haven't seen or heard anything that makes me think this is the case. The biggest academia-related difference between YLS and SLS is that far more YLS students seem interested in academia -- which is an advantage in some ways and a disadvantage in others. On the whole it may be a net plus for Yale, but it's certainly not overwhelmingly so.

(2) A significant (albeit subservient) factor in landing a tenure track position is what you do after law school. The big one here is clerking, which is a virtual requirement for non-PhD candidates. Yale is somewhat better on this front than Stanford, but not massively so. Similarly, I'd imagine that Yale gives folks generally a slight leg up for prestigious boutiques, for public interest positions, and--crucially--for fellowships. But I think all involved here would agree that the difference is pretty darn small (potentially as small as one additional H, or something of the sort). On the whole, this is probably the area in which Yale has the biggest advantage--and it is without a doubt a pretty darn small difference. (I'd also count grad degrees in here, which Stanford makes much easier than YLS--but you probably already know if you're going to do a PhD/Masters.)

(3) Finally, this brings me to the direct effect that law school has on tenure track hiring. Where you go to law school does make a difference--both because your professors can be personally helpful in setting you up, and because the name on your resume counts (albeit less than the above factors). On the first part of this, it may be that Yale as an establishment, or Yale profs culturally, are better at supporting candidates on the market. I don't know if this is true, although I haven't seen anything on that subject. Turning to the value of having the "Yale" name on your resume, well, if it's worth more than "Stanford," that's a pretty negligible difference. Although law faculties may make interview or callback decisions based on where candidates went to law schools on the margins, I can think of no situation in which Yale is going to get the edge over Stanford because two candidates are never going to be so similar that such a small distinction will make the difference.

All in all, it's possible that the cumulative effects of these things--each individually small--add up to something larger. But I suspect that's unlikely. Instead, I think it's far more likely that self-selection and school culture influence these differences, and not relative quality.

[rockclimber2013]

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[PeanutsNJam]

I know a guy who went to SLS and he told me they have cross disciplinary courses. Idk if Yale also offers that, but at SLS you can take their comp sci/engineering courses free of charge. That sounds pretty good.

Have you thought about government policy work (apparently a common-ish outcome from YS) if you strike out for academia? It sounds like you want to trailblaze tech legislation, as opposed to work in-house in a tech firm.

[eriedoctrine]

You want IP & Technology Law?
Stanford. Not even close man....