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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:36 am
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I wouldn't consider myself one of the most debt-averse people on this forum, but...
Bu at sticker is not, under any circumstance, worth it.
Edit: wording
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Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:44 am
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:49 am
Definitely not. I also think it's kind of shitty to try to get you to deposit before you have scholarship information. If you want to work at a big NYC firm, you need to attend a better school. Stats?
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:06 am
Rutgers. But consider telling BU admissions of your upcoming decision to attend Rutgers due to the scholarship/COA. Don't be tricked into depositing first at BU.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:20 am
Don't pay sticker at BU. Like don't even think about it.
Sounds like part of you wants the option of working at an NYC firm, so you need to figure out if that's a priority. If so, don't go to Rutgers. It sounds like you already know this but are tempted at the prospect of a debt-free JD. So to reinforce, don't come to Rutgers unless you're OK working at a 10-man firm in Hackensack for 55k/year. That's the dream. About 50% of the class will end up there (assuming this is the outcome for most ppl who clerk with state judges), with the next largest chunk (30-35%) unemployed.
Disclaimer: Rutgers student
Sounds like part of you wants the option of working at an NYC firm, so you need to figure out if that's a priority. If so, don't go to Rutgers. It sounds like you already know this but are tempted at the prospect of a debt-free JD. So to reinforce, don't come to Rutgers unless you're OK working at a 10-man firm in Hackensack for 55k/year. That's the dream. About 50% of the class will end up there (assuming this is the outcome for most ppl who clerk with state judges), with the next largest chunk (30-35%) unemployed.
Disclaimer: Rutgers student
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:42 pm
Definitely don't go to BU at sticker. Definitely do the above and see if they budge at all and make you an offer before the deadline. If not, consider double depositing to find out what kind of offer you're getting/for increased leverage if you really want to go to BU.CanadianWolf wrote:But consider telling BU admissions of your upcoming decision to attend Rutgers due to the scholarship/COA.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:54 pm
Has BU shared with you their class of 2014 employment stats yet? All schools have already reported them to the ABA, and most other schools have them on their website by now.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:11 pm
Winston1984 wrote:Definitely not. I also think it's kind of shitty to try to get you to deposit before you have scholarship information. If you want to work at a big NYC firm, you need to attend a better school. Stats?
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:11 pm
Yeah RU debt-free is the right choice. You have the correct outlook at to NYC big law prospects, and that's good. Basically, it runs about 10% of the class, with Law Review or great grades being the gateway if you don't have connections. Obviously, there are other, still "prestigious" routes within NJ or non-big law realms in NYC and elsewhere that will be open to you. It's not like the 10-30% strata is going to the 55k/year Hackensack 10-mans. They are going to Lowenstein, McElroy, clerkships, government, public interest, whatever. You sound like you are a catch for Rutgers and will probably at least generally successful, if not among the leaders of your class. I honestly don't believe you'd be foregoing too many opportunities if you selected Rutgers.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:27 pm
Wouldn't listen to this OP. I have no idea how he could know how well you will do in law school. You have a really good gpa. Retake the LSAT and go to a much better school at a discount. People with your gpa and 168+s are getting big money at Cornell this year.donewithannarbor wrote:Yeah RU debt-free is the right choice. You have the correct outlook at to NYC big law prospects, and that's good. Basically, it runs about 10% of the class, with Law Review or great grades being the gateway if you don't have connections. Obviously, there are other, still "prestigious" routes within NJ or non-big law realms in NYC and elsewhere that will be open to you. It's not like the 10-30% strata is going to the 55k/year Hackensack 10-mans. They are going to Lowenstein, McElroy, clerkships, government, public interest, whatever. You sound like you are a catch for Rutgers and will probably at least generally successful, if not among the leaders of your class. I honestly don't believe you'd be foregoing too many opportunities if you selected Rutgers.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:27 pm
Almost all of this is wrong. Like Winston said, there's no way to know how you'll perform in law school. The exams are different than anything you did in college, your grade is based on one 3 or 4 hour performance, there's a huge subjective component to grading, and you'll be on a forced curve where the difference between a B+ and A- might be punctuation.donewithannarbor wrote:Yeah RU debt-free is the right choice. You have the correct outlook at to NYC big law prospects, and that's good. Basically, it runs about 10% of the class, with Law Review or great grades being the gateway if you don't have connections. Obviously, there are other, still "prestigious" routes within NJ or non-big law realms in NYC and elsewhere that will be open to you. It's not like the 10-30% strata is going to the 55k/year Hackensack 10-mans. They are going to Lowenstein, McElroy, clerkships, government, public interest, whatever. You sound like you are a catch for Rutgers and will probably at least generally successful, if not among the leaders of your class. I honestly don't believe you'd be foregoing too many opportunities if you selected Rutgers.
w/r/t employment data, the only thing correct is that biglaw placement is around 10%, though I should note that number encompasses any biglaw, not just NYC biglaw. Look here for the data: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... wark/2013/. Biglaw (firms of 101+) and Federal Clerkships are generally the two "prestigious routes" other than elite federal government or non-profit (to which Rutgers has basically no placement power), and the Rutgers-Newark class of 2013 (270 total students) placed 27 grads in firms of 101+ and 3 grads in federal clerkships. Don't listen to the McElroy/Lowenstein bs, as both firms are 300+ attorneys and already included in the above number.
Outside of the ≈ 10% in biglaw/fedclerk, we get to the 10-man firm in Hackensack data. Of 270 grads, 151 (56%) were employed in full-time long-term attorney jobs, meaning bar passage was required. Of that, 101 grads were in small firms or state clerkships, and most people at trial-level state clerkships end up at small firms or DA/PD offices. So literally 2/3 grads employed as attorneys are absolutely looking at the 10-man-firm-in-Hackensack type jobs. I pulled the 55k number out of my ass, but the median reported salary was $55,316, so my guess was pretty fair.
OP, retake the LSAT and don't waste your GPA. You don't need many points to have a very different cycle. Like Winston said, a high retake and you're looking at Cornell with $$.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:40 pm
None of the law schools in NJ are any good. 
Get a decent scholarship to Fordham and commute if you can't raise your lsat 7 or 8 points.
Get a decent scholarship to Fordham and commute if you can't raise your lsat 7 or 8 points.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:47 pm
OP, what's the GPA stipulation on your Rutgers scholarship, if any? BU is definitely not worth sticker and not even worth half-sticker. How many times have you taken the LSAT?
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:48 pm
i voted rutgers, but only b/c bu at sticker is so reckless
you have a 3.75. you're above columbia's median, and at nyu's
since you say you want a nyc firm and want good employment prospects, why not aim there
you have a 3.75. you're above columbia's median, and at nyu's
since you say you want a nyc firm and want good employment prospects, why not aim there
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:12 pm
As Brut said, why not aim higher? Don't foreclose on NYC employment if that's something you want.
If you are definitely going this year, go Rutgers.
BU at sticker would likely be the worst decision of your life.
If you are definitely going this year, go Rutgers.
BU at sticker would likely be the worst decision of your life.
Re: BU (sticker) VS. Rutgers-Newark (Full Scholarship)
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:39 am
Also voted Rutgers.
It presents no costs, nor any materialized opportunity cost. On that note, your alternatives would be to retake, and, assuming you do well enough, go to NYU or Columbia with a probably full debt load. Do this only if 100%, inflexibly dead set on NYC big law or federal clerkship. And of course, there are no real assurances for these things, even if you go to Columbia or NYU, and oh ps, you'll NEED to obtain such employment to address your crushing debt. Aside from these NYC T14s, free at a strong regional is the way to go, and there is no sense in pitting Rutgers for free against another regional at partial or full cost (i.e. your BU situation), or in going through the cycle again to get money at a peer school like Cardozo or Brooklyn (particularly since they don't even improve the employment outlook, and arguably restrict you a bit to the extent you might want establish yourself in NJ).
Again, either enroll at Rutgers this fall, or keep fighting on the LSAT so that you can take the ultimate plunge.
It presents no costs, nor any materialized opportunity cost. On that note, your alternatives would be to retake, and, assuming you do well enough, go to NYU or Columbia with a probably full debt load. Do this only if 100%, inflexibly dead set on NYC big law or federal clerkship. And of course, there are no real assurances for these things, even if you go to Columbia or NYU, and oh ps, you'll NEED to obtain such employment to address your crushing debt. Aside from these NYC T14s, free at a strong regional is the way to go, and there is no sense in pitting Rutgers for free against another regional at partial or full cost (i.e. your BU situation), or in going through the cycle again to get money at a peer school like Cardozo or Brooklyn (particularly since they don't even improve the employment outlook, and arguably restrict you a bit to the extent you might want establish yourself in NJ).
Again, either enroll at Rutgers this fall, or keep fighting on the LSAT so that you can take the ultimate plunge.
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:11 pm
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