Berk ($$$) v GULC ($$$) v Penn ($$) v Chicago ($) Forum

[Flokkness]

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[TLSModBot]

Current GULC student here - I'd take GULC off the list. Penn and Berkeley are offering you decent deals which, I think, would outweigh GULC for sure at anything short of a full ride (and maybe even then). I like the school just fine - but I'd be happy to talk more in PM if it's not incredibly obvious why GULC is not a winner here.

I'd choose Penn over Berkeley for Biglaw hiring and your tentative east coast preferences. No idea about how they do w/ PI hiring, though. Penn has good portability but I get the sense that Berkeley doesn't penetrate the East Coast super well (compared to your other options).

Edit: How did you get these offers with a 159? This seems... unrealistic.

[Nomo]

Why didn't you include loan interest? Also, the fact that you didn't include loan interest makes me concerned that you left out other hidden costs - like 3 years of tuition increases and loan origination fees.

[TLSModBot]

Why didn't you include loan interest? Also, the fact that you didn't include loan interest makes me concerned that you left out other hidden costs - like 3 years of tuition increases and loan origination fees.

Not trying to be snarky here, but does that make a serious difference for school-choice options here? (Maybe for the go-to school or don't go decision). These costs exist at all schools and probably not vastly different so as to skew the balance.

[Flokkness]

beep beep

[fra]

I would also add in cost for both you and your fiancée to travel for visits as that could add up quickly if you're doing a cross country LDR.

[2014]

Take GULC and Chicago ( ) off the list given these offers. Both Berkeley and Penn are cost justified at those levels and I think Penn is probably worth 80k more given your goals.

[180kickflip]

I'd take Berkeley in a second. 75k all in is an amazing outcome. With a tight budget and a summer firm position, you might be able to pay that off in 1 year. For someone starting a bit later that most, I feel like getting debt free asap is the move. I'm more about minimizing risk than maximizing upside though.

[jbagelboy]

I guess I'll be the one to say it, you should retake the LSAT, it would be a torrential waste of money/opportunity to not do so.

Otherwise, Berkeley

[180kickflip]

I guess I'll be the one to say it, you should retake the LSAT, it would be a torrential waste of money/opportunity to not do so.

Otherwise, Berkeley

It seems a bit excessive to call Berkeley with a nearly full scholarship (even if part is need based) a torrential waste. I don't think that is far off from a dillard/NU ED/darrow, and people often recommend those over H/S for people targeting biglaw and flexible on location.

[Flokkness]

I would also add in cost for both you and your fiancée to travel for visits as that could add up quickly if you're doing a cross country LDR.

Good call. If Berk, we probably will mostly talk via Skype because she's in med school and between us time to travel would be at a scant minimum. I mean, we live together now and it's already almost like that, lol. Berk would be tough but we're playing the long game w/r/t life plans, so it's doable as LDRs go.

Pretty sure GULC is out. Just too chancy with that placement and class size at that price point. Then there's the miserable DC lifestyle. Chicago is looking out too. After 2 years in the heat, the "hawk" would just be too too much, terrible fit there and that debt is a non-starter. Unlikely that they match Penn.

So barring any big surprises - Berk v Penn. As for retakes, if these offers weren't on deck I'd go that route, but I'm comfortable enough with this to move forward without regrets.

Really appreciate you all chiming in. This is a tough decision.

[fra]

I would also add in cost for both you and your fiancée to travel for visits as that could add up quickly if you're doing a cross country LDR.

Good call. If Berk, we probably will mostly talk via Skype because she's in med school and between us time to travel would be at a scant minimum. I mean, we live together now and it's already almost like that, lol. Berk would be tough but we're playing the long game w/r/t life plans, so it's doable as LDRs go.

Pretty sure GULC is out. Just too chancy with that placement and class size at that price point. Then there's the miserable DC lifestyle. Chicago is looking out too. After 2 years in the heat, the "hawk" would just be too too much, terrible fit there and that debt is a non-starter. Unlikely that they match Penn.

So barring any big surprises - Berk v Penn. As for retakes, if these offers weren't on deck I'd go that route, but I'm comfortable enough with this to move forward without regrets.

Really appreciate you all chiming in. This is a tough decision.

Full disclosure - take everything that I say with a large grain of salt because I want you to give up your berk scholarship so that they give it to me.

I just can't imagine doing that kind of long distance for three years. It's doable of course, especially since you guys are in this relationship for life, but it would suck so much.
I would pay 80K over three years to be able to live with my husband and see him. Hell, I'd pay a ton more than that to not have to be far away from him. We were planning on doing long distance for two years so I could finish my PhD, but we tried it for two months while he was doing a summer associateship on the opposite coast and it made both of us too miserable.

Having a busy schedule while living with the person that you love is very very different than having a busy schedule with the person you love in a different time zone.


Maybe someone with more PI experience can chime in on this. It seems to me that PI hiring is very dependent on networking. People seem to get PI jobs in the area that they went to school because that's where they get face time with people.
ETA: It occurs to me that that might be because of self-selection though.

[Fareslols]

I would also add in cost for both you and your fiancée to travel for visits as that could add up quickly if you're doing a cross country LDR.

Good call. If Berk, we probably will mostly talk via Skype because she's in med school and between us time to travel would be at a scant minimum. I mean, we live together now and it's already almost like that, lol. Berk would be tough but we're playing the long game w/r/t life plans, so it's doable as LDRs go.

Pretty sure GULC is out. Just too chancy with that placement and class size at that price point. Then there's the miserable DC lifestyle. Chicago is looking out too. After 2 years in the heat, the "hawk" would just be too too much, terrible fit there and that debt is a non-starter. Unlikely that they match Penn.

So barring any big surprises - Berk v Penn. As for retakes, if these offers weren't on deck I'd go that route, but I'm comfortable enough with this to move forward without regrets.

Really appreciate you all chiming in. This is a tough decision.

Full disclosure - take everything that I say with a large grain of salt because I want you to give up your berk scholarship so that they give it to me.

I just can't imagine doing that kind of long distance for three years. It's doable of course, especially since you guys are in this relationship for life, but it would suck so much.
I would pay 80K over three years to be able to live with my husband and see him. Hell, I'd pay a ton more than that to not have to be far away from him. We were planning on doing long distance for two years so I could finish my PhD, but we tried it for two months while he was doing a summer associateship on the opposite coast and it made both of us too miserable.

Having a busy schedule while living with the person that you love is very very different than having a busy schedule with the person you love in a different time zone.


Maybe someone with more PI experience can chime in on this. It seems to me that PI hiring is very dependent on networking. People seem to get PI jobs in the area that they went to school because that's where they get face time with people.
ETA: It occurs to me that that might be because of self-selection though.

+1, especially on the relationship piece. I understand that 3 years of long distance is entirely possible, but it's certainly not desirable. Especially not when both of you are going through extremely intensive, formative experiences. Is it worth the extra cash to you to do your law school and (perhaps somewhat longer) BigLaw time closer to your fiance? I'm most certainly not in a position to assess that.

I don't think anyone's questioning that either school would deliver exactly what you want. It seems to me like most of the consideration at this point is cost vs. proximity to people you care about.

Good luck!

[DiniMae]

From my Penn visit, they convinced me that if you're among the few who actually will choose PI immediately following graduation, you will receive a lot of 1-on-1 attention from Career Services just because most will choose firms. Doesn't mean you'll get what you're looking for, but you'll have support.

As for Berkeley, I spoke with a few URMs snd nonURMs who received v10 offers. They had a few Hs each semester & found it quite easy to "do well".

If you're looking to broaden your potential work location options, my vote is Berkeley. If you know you will always be near the Atlantic, Penn 100%.

[Flokkness]

Thanks all. Fantastic feedback. Going to crunch the numbers for serious and get into a more substantive LRAP, COL, LDR comparison. It's nice Berk has that awesome no-deposit policy, but man, the opportunity cost on the whole stings here. That's probably a good thing.

[worldtraveler]

It really seems like Berkeley is the right call here on every front except the relationship one, and that's something that only you can determine.

[fra]

It really seems like Berkeley is the right call here on every front except the relationship one, and that's something that only you can determine.

Can you expand on this?
Since OP wants to end up on the east coast wouldn't it make sense to go to an east coast school over a west coast one?

[worldtraveler]

It really seems like Berkeley is the right call here on every front except the relationship one, and that's something that only you can determine.

Can you expand on this?
Since OP wants to end up on the east coast wouldn't it make sense to go to an east coast school over a west coast one?

...no?

Not when it cost 80k extra and the career prospects are incredibly similar. the OP is looking at T10 schools, not regional ones.

[WhiskeynCoke]

First, congratulations on an amazing cycle. Those are some incredible options. It's definitely between Berk and Penn. No way is Chicago worth that much more $ and GULC is simply a tier below in terms of job placement.

I think B is objectively the best call here, but your personal circumstances certainly justify taking Penn. NYC big law will be fairly easy from either school, but the three years away from your SO is a huge sacrifice. If you plan on getting married, I'd honestly choose Penn to avoid the long distance.

On a side note, how THE FUCK are you getting full rides to T10 schools with a 159 LSAT? Not going to lie, that makes me incredibly angry (not at you though). With that score you shouldn't even be getting acceptances... Poor kids with far better numbers than you (and who studied their ass off for the LSAT instead of blowing it off) aren't even coming close to that. They are effectively subsidizing your education by going deeply into debt themselves. There is no justice in the world.

But again, congrats. Either Berk or Penn are great calls here.

[Flokkness]

No justice and no decorum, apparently. Really appreciate the advice, but the rant is inappropriate. Not to interrupt your wanton rush to judgement or anything, but if you have any substantive questions about my cycle, app materials, or comparative misery index, feel free to ask via PM. Either way, give Berk and Penn at least a little credit.

[Atmosphere]

First, congratulations on an amazing cycle. Those are some incredible options. It's definitely between Berk and Penn. No way is Chicago worth that much more $ and GULC is simply a tier below in terms of job placement.

I think B is objectively the best call here, but your personal circumstances certainly justify taking Penn. NYC big law will be fairly easy from either school, but the three years away from your SO is a huge sacrifice. If you plan on getting married, I'd honestly choose Penn to avoid the long distance.

On a side note, how THE FUCK are you getting full rides to T10 schools with a 159 LSAT? Not going to lie, that makes me incredibly angry (not at you though). With that score you shouldn't even be getting acceptances... Poor kids with far better numbers than you (and who studied their ass off for the LSAT instead of blowing it off) aren't even coming close to that. They are effectively subsidizing your education by going deeply into debt themselves. There is no justice in the world.

But again, congrats. Either Berk or Penn are great calls here.

...escalation

[Flokkness]

edited