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I'm having a tough time deciding between WashU and Notre Dame. I was a bio major in Undergrad in California (born and raised in Orange County) with a 3.0 and 168 LSAT. Ultimately I want to come back to California eventually and I'm strongly considering IP Law. While WashU is ranked higher Notre Dame seems to hold more weight in terms of prestige in California and the alumni network seems like it will be more helpful in terms of coming back to LA but really it could go either way with both schools.

In terms of financing my parents are helping me out with living expenses but I'm taking out loans to cover the rest of tuition.

Scholarship
Notre Dame: $75,000
WashU: $60,000

Any input would be super helpful!

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sublime wrote:Neither is great for California.

Truth. There's a greater Notre Dame alumni base in Cali, but it's unlikely to help you get out there. I guess ND is marginally better but your best option is to retake and gun for Berk.

Had similar choices last cycle. Use offers to negotiate with CA schools?

rahulg91 wrote:

sublime wrote:Neither is great for California.

Truth. There's a greater Notre Dame alumni base in Cali, but it's unlikely to help you get out there. I guess ND is marginally better but your best option is to retake and gun for Berk.

Lol OP would be lucky to get USC/UCLA with a retake, Berkeley is never going to happen with that GPA. It sucks that the west coast schools are so harsh on splitters.

splitstack89 wrote:I was a bio major in Undergrad in California...Ultimately I want to come back to California eventually and I'm strongly considering IP Law.

Allow me to say that with only a bachelor's bio degree, even if you pass the patent bar, you will not get a job doing patent pros. Not without a PhD.

Well, if OP retakes, he/she can get a bigger scholarship at a T20 (like UT/Vandy maybe), or a few T14 bites. You won't get Cali schools, but Penn/UVA/NU/Cornell might have a shot at placing you into Cali. With a 3.0/170+ you have an outside shot at Penn/UVA, and a good one at NU. At least you'll be riding a full scholarship at WUSTL, so I think a retake is worth $90k.

If you can't get UCLA/USC with $$$, and you're 100% set on CA, then UC Davis/Hastings on full ride.
Don't bother with WUSTL or ND.

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Out of these two, WashU.

But I agree with what has been said - you should be going to UCD, UCI, UCH, or gunning for USC or UCLA with a retake.

And no, a JD from ND isn't going to help you get back to Cali.

reasonable person wrote:If you can't get UCLA/USC with $$$, and you're 100% set on CA, then UC Davis/Hastings on full ride.
Don't bother with WUSTL or ND.

Personally, I'd gamble with ND/WUSTL for cheaper if UCD/Hastings on a full ride isn't an option. USC/UCLA would not be worth it only because I do not see OP getting any $$$ from them. With that said, I do know someone with a lower GPA and a slightly higher LSAT that is at UCD/UCH on a full ride so retake could be an option.

Actually, based on data, you have a good chance of getting back to California if you go to ND. Most people from California that go to ND end up back in California. See placement data in link below - filter by home state. Nearly 70% of those from California ended back in California.

http://law.nd.edu/careers/career-map/

Trust me if UCLA/USC were options I'd be there in a heartbeat but things just didn't pan out that way. UCH & Davis didn't offer me any money - the only CA school that did was Loyola ($90,000). I know that with either of these school I am going to have to do ton of leg work on my own to get back to SoCal but I'm just wondering what people's opinions are on these schools overall because I've heard seriously mixed reviews on which is the better option.

ND by no means has the national placement power of even a lower T14 school but it's pretty reliable for getting most people back to their respective home markets, especially California. Given your strong ties to SoCal it should definitely be able to get you back there, although probably not as a biglaw associate. I'm not sure WUSTL could do the same. At the very least, it'll probably be harder coming from there.

pamphleteer wrote:ND by no means has the national placement power of even a lower T14 school but it's pretty reliable for getting most people back to their respective home markets, especially California. Given your strong ties to SoCal it should definitely be able to get you back there, although probably not as a biglaw associate. I'm not sure WUSTL could do the same. At the very least, it'll probably be harder coming from there.

This.

Honestly, the alumni network at ND is somewhat rabid... in a good way. They admitted as much at the ASW last weekend. I truly believe that the ND alumni network would be extremely beneficial to finding you summer placements and an eventual job back in your target region. But, that said, if you try hard enough, I'm sure you'd be able to get back to SoCal at WUSTL if you seriously tailored your summer placements and everything toward California. I do think it'd be easier with the ND alumni, but I'm biased. Also, I think I heard something about WUSTL having a slightly stronger IP program, but I can't verify that and I very well might be wrong. Still, something to consider.

at either of these places you're taking out about $100k in debt and not getting any institutional advantage in hiring in your preferred region. this only makes sense in a world where you're okay with--and will actively pursue, albeit not necessarily at the expense of preferred alternatives--working in the regions these schools do funnel their students into, at least immediately out of LS.

the way i read OP, it's that you're ok with a stint somewhere else if it helps you get to cali eventually. what'll help you get to cali generally is being employed. you are drawing dead in st louis, which is WUSTL's primary market, because you not only have no ties to StL...you have really clear ties to somewhere else specifically, which makes an already insular market outright hostile.

to me, ND is the better call for that reason. going WUSTL and gunning for non-StL biglaw is the crappiest of crapshoots. ND's geographic dispersion suggests it doesn't rely on any particular city or state, and going ND from CA doesn't foreclose opportunities in IL or IN the way that it shuts you out of StL. so paying less for ND than WUSTL (with those scholarships) and missing out on such a big part of what "justifies" the cost of WUSTL makes ND a better play. tough to swallow that debt at either place for basically no institutional benefit for your preferred place of residence, but i suppose that turns on how strong the preference is.

splitstack89 wrote:Trust me if UCLA/USC were options I'd be there in a heartbeat but things just didn't pan out that way. UCH & Davis didn't offer me any money - the only CA school that did was Loyola ($90,000). I know that with either of these school I am going to have to do ton of leg work on my own to get back to SoCal but I'm just wondering what people's opinions are on these schools overall because I've heard seriously mixed reviews on which is the better option.

Did you try negotiating with UCH/UCD? Use your ND and WUSTL offers as leverage. As mentioned before, I actually know someone on a full ride to one of those schools with a shittier GPA. Granted, she has a higher LSAT score.

Not saying you will get a full ride, but it's worth a shot. You should get something.

Your GPA puts you in a tough spot. If you are attorney or bust, and those are your only options, I would probably roll the die with ND.