BL Partners Study (RED) Rep Feedback Loop (BLUE) (SEE OP) Forum

[brianiac]

The moderators have taken over the thread explaining my theory of a reputational positive feedback looped and merged it with my thread on biglaw partners. I don't understand why, but this is the way they want it done. Therefore:

To address topic 1, my posts will be in RED. I encourage you to post in RED for clearness.
To address topic 2, my posts will be in BLUE. I encourage you to post in BLUE for clearness.

On behalf of those responsible, my apologies for this inconvenience.

Original title: What schools are best for biglaw? A methodical approach

US News rankings are increasingly unreliable. I have seen some biglaw proximity studies posted on the board and they have begun to change some minds about relying on US News rankings. I submit to the board another study, done by Theodore P. Seto (Harvard Law School, magna cum laude)

The results you are about to see deal with what schools give you the best shot at being partner. This is important because partnership prospects are a LONG TERM goal. So these rankings give you a better picture of LONG TERM placement ability. 9 month rankings are good but not as useful because they only focus on the short term.

Additionally, partnership means you have certain exceptional skills, otherwise you would not become partner. The US News rankings put certain schools at the very top year after year, and those schools may have fabulous placement. However, do they hone those exceptional skills required for a partnership track. Study the data and come to your own conclusions.

Without further adieu, here are the rankings...

1 Harvard
2 Georgetown
3 NYU
4 Virginia
5 Columbia
6 George Washington
7 Michigan
8 Chicago
9 Texas
10 Northwestern
11 Pennsylvania
12 Boston University
13 Fordham
14 UC Berkeley

Link - http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/jle/jle622seto.pdf

Original title: School Reputation and the Positive Feedback Loop (is S > Y?)

I watched with amusement as TLS held its collective breath on the eve of the new US News Rankings. Polls were made, contests were held, every subtle shift was analyzed, debated, poked and prodded. It was truly a spectacle to behold. But I soon wondered – isn't this exactly why the same schools appear again and again at the very top of the rankings.

What am I talking about – let me give you an simple illustration. Imagine Mr. X reads the rankings, which change his perception of the various law schools. The very high ranking for school Y makes him believe Y is the best school in the country. This perception endures as he enters law school, and endures after he graduates. Then, in practice, he is asked to participate in the US News poll as part of the reputational score. Because of that earlier exposure to the rankings, he still believes Y is the best school and votes accordingly. This is factored into the reputational score, and thus, US News puts Y at the top again. As I learned about in economics, this is called a positive feedback loop.

You may wonder – how can I break this positive feedback loop. Simple – stop focusing on the reputational score and library book count, and start looking at important things like selectivity, employment, and salaries. Sure, you could break out Excel and calculate this all for yourself. But instead, a study has done this for you, which I submit to the board for its consideration today.

http://tippingthescales.com/2013/10/our ... schools/3/

1. Stanford
2. Yale
3. Harvard
4. UPenn
5. Columbia
6. Duke
7. Northwestern
8. Berkeley
9. Virginia
10, Michigan
11. Chicago
12. New York
13. GW
14. Cornell

You will immediately notice that many different factors are in play, all of them relevant. No library books. No expenses per student. No reputational score. This is purely objective metrics like jobs at graduation, and median private salary. You will also notice that certain schools, like Yale and Georgetown, which get inflated rankings because of "prestige", have dropped once you start looking at purely objective measurements. Certain other schools have risen, in some cases considerably so. I submit that if TLS is going to focus on a T14, it ought to be a T14 of employment and salary, not a T14 of library size and faculty-student ratio.

[ballcaps]

first post!

[Ex Cearulo]

And he's back.

[ub3r]

This has potential to really boost your ratings in light of pollywolly's recent decline. Nice move.

[mvp99]

I'm in

[BrazilBandit]

As soon as I saw GW at 6 I looked at who posted it... hello Mr. Congressman!

[071816]

this is useless

thread should be called "What schools are best for biglaw? A shitty approach"

[xael]

US News rankings are increasingly unreliable. I have seen some biglaw proximity studies posted on the board and they have begun to change some minds about relying on US News rankings. I submit to the board another study, done by Theodore P. Seto (Harvard Law School, magna cum laude)

The results you are about to see deal with what schools give you the best shot at being partner. This is important because partnership prospects are a LONG TERM goal. So these rankings give you a better picture of LONG TERM placement ability. 9 month rankings are good but not as useful because they only focus on the short term.

Additionally, partnership means you have certain exceptional skills, otherwise you would not become partner. The US News rankings put certain schools at the very top year after year, and those schools may have fabulous placement. However, do they hone those exceptional skills required for a partnership track. Study the data and come to your own conclusions.

Without further adieu, here are the rankings...

1 Harvard
2 Georgetown
3 NYU
4 Virginia
5 Columbia
6 George Washington
7 Michigan
8 Chicago
9 Texas
10 Northwestern
11 Pennsylvania
12 Boston University
13 Fordham
14 UC Berkeley

Link - http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/jle/jle622seto.pdf

DAMMIT

[ballcaps]

hello Mr. Congressman!

best post so far

[rahulg91]

Yale confirmed TTTT.

[rpupkin]

This is excellent.

The linked law review article also ranks by city. Here are the numbers for Washington DC partners:

1.Georgetown 286
2 George Washington 215
3 Harvard 190
4 Virginia 176
5 American 93
6 Catholic 78
7 Yale 66
8 Chicago 63
9 Michigan 61
10 Columbia 58

We now have conclusive proof that, if you're interested in DC big law, GW > H

LOL@0Ls targeting DC who turn down GULC/GW ("G/G") and instead accept at HYS. Just LOL.

[notgreat]

This list is useless, because it looks like it doesn't correct for class size. I mean the list looks like it is sorted more by class size than anything else. Additionally, like what, 2-5% of prospective law students at these schools will ever make partner at a large firm? So this is relevant to almost no one.

[BrazilBandit]

I also love how the intention of the post is to discredit the US NEWS rankings. It is already completely discredited on this website. The most prestigious schools and schools with better employment outcomes are only referred to as T14 for convenience. If a random school ranks 14th next year (Let's say UT-Austin, as happened before) it will not be incredibly better than Georgetown at 15.

Brianiac - GW is a solid school, if you attend at the right price and it matches your career goals. We have established that going to your regional school and establishing connections is a vastly superior strategy than attending GW at sticker and "networking your way to congress" in DC.

[OhBoyOhBortles]

American at 5?! Is it too late to apply?

[ub3r]

The linked law review article also ranks by city. Here are the numbers for Washington DC partners:

1.Georgetown 286
2 George Washington 215
3 Harvard 190
4 Virginia 176
5 American 93
6 Catholic 78
7 Yale 66
8 Chicago 63
9 Michigan 61
10 Columbia 58

Coincidentally, Virginia, American, Catholic is what I put on my tinder profile and I've been killing it in DC. Study the data and come to your own conclusions.

[yomisterd]

dailygrind can we get autobans for threads like this this is terrible.

[starry eyed]

dailygrind can we get autobans for threads like this this is terrible.

[rahulg91]

dailygrind can we get autobans for threads like this this is terrible.

Pls no. Netflix is expensive and this is entertaining.

[BearLaw]

Additionally, partnership means you have certain exceptional skills, otherwise you would not become partner. The US News rankings put certain schools at the very top year after year, and those schools may have fabulous placement. However, do they hone those exceptional skills required for a partnership track. Study the data and come to your own conclusions.

lol no, just no.

[WhiskeyAndCupcakes]

.

[hairbear7]

Can you rank the T-14 for becoming President? I have no interest in becoming partner.

[rpupkin]

Coincidentally, Virginia, American, Catholic is what I put on my tinder profile and I've been killing it in DC. Study the data and come to your own conclusions.

Your tinder profile sounds like a great basis for a law review article. Draft, publish, and profit.

[BigZuck]

9 Texas

[Dog]

Harvard and Georgetown are #1 and #2. Surely that has nothing to do with their 500+ class sizes.

[BigZuck]

Harvard and Georgetown are #1 and #2. Surely that has nothing to do with their 500+ class sizes.

I think the top 9 or so with the exception of Chicago have pretty large classes?*

Impressive showing by Chicago. Must be dat skillz development.

*Of course I don't know how big the class sizes have been historically, maybe they are different now