Top Law Schools

I'm trying to decide where to put down my deposit, hoping that some of you would be able to offer some advice. I've always lived in Boston and am looking to leave the area to go to another part of the country, even if it is only for the three years of school. I'm also not committed to returning to Boston immediately after graduation. Especially not after this worst winter on record

Currently work in state government, interested in trying to get a clerkship post-graduation. But also interested in the business/finance related side of thing.

Considering:
GULC (35K/yr scholarship)
Vandy (35K/yr scholarship, plus 1 time 5K stipend)
UVA (not a dime in scholarship, but still holding out hope)
GW (40K/yr scholarship)

LSAT/GPA: 170/3.8

Ultimately, I'm really just trying to decide between Vanderbilt and Georgetown. I'm not opposed to living in either place. And although this is not quantifiable like all of the other data I have at my disposal, I am really impressed with the "culture" of Vandy, as opposed to the notoriously cutthroat reputation of GULC where I would just be one in a crowd of 600+.

Intent to Enroll is due to GULC by April 1st if I want to keep the scholarship offer. Any advice?

I would think your numbers should have better options than this

What'd you get at Cornell, Duke, etc.? Guessing Cornell is your best option.

neeksneeks wrote:interested in trying to get a clerkship post-graduation.

Yeah, good luck with that unless you go to UVA or better.

neeksneeks wrote: Ultimately, I'm really just trying to decide between Vanderbilt and Georgetown.

What? No. No no no. No. Current GULC student here - take UVA at sticker. I like my school fine and did well at OCI, but I can't even imagine the waaaay easier time I'd have had if I were at UVA. I don't think you appreciate exactly how much the rankings divide matters between UVA and GULC.

neeksneeks wrote:as opposed to the notoriously cutthroat reputation of GULC where I would just be one in a crowd of 600+.

Lol what? 'notoriously cutthroat?' Not only is that not true, but I hadn't even heard that before. People here are way chill except maybe a couple gunners. But they are the mocked ones, not the norm. There are many reasons not to go to GULC. This is not one of them.

Go to UVA, or sit out a cycle, retake for a point or two boost, and get some money somewhere in the t10-t14 range at least.

zacharus85 wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:interested in trying to get a clerkship post-graduation.

Yeah, good luck with that unless you go to UVA or better.

neeksneeks wrote: Ultimately, I'm really just trying to decide between Vanderbilt and Georgetown.

What? No. No no no. No. Current GULC student here - take UVA at sticker. I like my school fine and did well at OCI, but I can't even imagine the waaaay easier time I'd have had if I were at UVA. I don't think you appreciate exactly how much the rankings divide matters between UVA and GULC.

Are you pushing for UVA at sticker because OP wants a clerkship? Is that alone worth passing up $105k at GULC?

edit: also including the obvious employment and preftige differences between the schools

BigZuck wrote:I would think your numbers should have better options than this

What'd you get at Cornell, Duke, etc.? Guessing Cornell is your best option.

This don't go to UVA at sticker...

commandercup wrote:

zacharus85 wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:interested in trying to get a clerkship post-graduation.

Yeah, good luck with that unless you go to UVA or better.

neeksneeks wrote: Ultimately, I'm really just trying to decide between Vanderbilt and Georgetown.

What? No. No no no. No. Current GULC student here - take UVA at sticker. I like my school fine and did well at OCI, but I can't even imagine the waaaay easier time I'd have had if I were at UVA. I don't think you appreciate exactly how much the rankings divide matters between UVA and GULC.

Are you pushing for UVA at sticker because OP wants a clerkship? Is that alone worth passing up $105k at GULC?

edit: also including the obvious employment and preftige differences between the schools

Lord no. Just of his options, UVA is best choice. But retake/reapply for more $ is of course the right answer

Post removed.

UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

This is my hangup too. I get that OP should be seeing near fullys at Cornell, NU, etc., but $105k at GULC seems lukewarm or decent-ish?

BigZuck wrote:I would think your numbers should have better options than this

What'd you get at Cornell, Duke, etc.? Guessing Cornell is your best option.

I didn't apply to Duke, and withdrew my application from Cornell after realizing I had zero interest in living in upstate east bum NY. So alas, neither of those are in the cards.

Mostly an irrelevant consideration, but I haven't really ever heard friends from larger schools like GULC or HLS ever complain about the size. Sure, 600 seems a lot bigger than 300, but socially you don't have time to know 300 people anyways.

commandercup wrote:

zacharus85 wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:interested in trying to get a clerkship post-graduation.

Yeah, good luck with that unless you go to UVA or better.

neeksneeks wrote: Ultimately, I'm really just trying to decide between Vanderbilt and Georgetown.

What? No. No no no. No. Current GULC student here - take UVA at sticker. I like my school fine and did well at OCI, but I can't even imagine the waaaay easier time I'd have had if I were at UVA. I don't think you appreciate exactly how much the rankings divide matters between UVA and GULC.

Are you pushing for UVA at sticker because OP wants a clerkship? Is that alone worth passing up $105k at GULC?

edit: also including the obvious employment and preftige differences between the schools

There is absolutely no way I am taking out $80K per year in loans. I got my acceptance before Thanksgiving and was hoping to get some money because I loved UVA and always wanted to go there, but I cannot justify that much debt.

I probably should have mentioned: I avoided debt through undergrad by working and getting scholarships, VERY debt averse.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

yeah this. it should be an auto perma ban to advise someone to debt finance sticker cost at UVA

But you made serious tactical mistakes in not applying/withdrawing from Duke and Cornell. Even if you didnt want to go, those schools are the ticket to getting you better offers.

That said, if 105K is your full COA at GTown, I think that is a fair price to pay. It's not ideal and you could do better with another cycle and a retake, but I wouldn't say taking that offer is a bad decision. Do not consider Vandy with that scholarship; they really low-balled you.

MistakenGenius wrote:
Lord no. Just of his options, UVA is best choice. But retake/reapply for more $ is of course the right answer

Agreed. Of these options, UVA is probably the best choice. But I can't believe you don't have offers from Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke. I probably wouldn't take any of them with your scores. Did you apply really late OP?[/quote]

I would love to go to UVA, but it appears they've run out of scholarship money. And paying sticker is not an option. I actually applied really early, all of my apps were submitted before Thanksgiving. I was accepted by Northwestern, but really had no interest in being in Chicago so I withdrew. Cornell, or rather, upstate middle-of-nowhere snowy NY, is not for me. And in hindsight, perhaps I should have looked more into Duke. But I didn't.

commandercup wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

This is my hangup too. I get that OP should be seeing near fullys at Cornell, NU, etc., but $105k at GULC seems lukewarm or decent-ish?

$105K is actually more than I anticipated from GULC. I'm above both of their medians for LSAT/GPA, wondering if that would even be worth negotiating?

MistakenGenius wrote:Agreed. Of these options, UVA is probably the best choice. But I can't believe you don't have offers from Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke. I probably wouldn't take any of them with your scores. Did you apply really late OP?

It's re-take, ED UVA time, baby.

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

yeah this. it should be an auto perma ban to advise someone to debt finance sticker cost at UVA

But you made serious tactical mistakes in not applying/withdrawing from Duke and Cornell. Even if you didnt want to go, those schools are the ticket to getting you better offers.

That said, if 105K is your full COA at GTown, I think that is a fair price to pay. It's not ideal and you could do better with another cycle and a retake, but I wouldn't say taking that offer is a bad decision. Do not consider Vandy with that scholarship; they really low-balled you.

The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

I wish Vanderbilt had given me more, and I haven't ruled out attempting to negotiate more from them/waiting to hear if I get picked for second round of the full scholly + stipend. But with COL taken into account, Vandy would be significantly cheaper, despite the lack of extra scholarship money.

neeksneeks wrote:I would love to go to UVA, but it appears they've run out of scholarship money...And in hindsight, perhaps I should have looked more into Duke. But I didn't.

Please reapply & (possibly) consider retaking for a few points. Do the all extra essays and emphasize your interest. No reason you shouldn't be getting decent $$.

And don't ED UVA lol

neeksneeks wrote:The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

are you debt financing everything
or are you/your family paying partly out of pocket

i am assuming you are fully debt-financing based on this comment:

neeksneeks wrote:There is absolutely no way I am taking out $80K per year in loans.

you're underestimating the cost of attendance

neeksneeks wrote:The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans.

this is incorrect
your actual cost of attendance will be roughly $176,775 given your $150,000 scholarship

work:
79,800 coa this year via lawschooltransparency (53,130 tuition + 26,670 books, col)
4.18% per year tuition inflation, 2% col inflation
((53,130*0.0418)+53130)+((26,670*0.02)+26,670)
82,554 estimated coa for 2015 matriculant

stafford 1.073% loan fee and 6.21% interest
grad plus 4.29% loan fee and 7.21% interest
assumes interest rate/fees do not increase at any point before 2018

net coa years 1, 2, 3: 47,554, 50,448, 53,448

total sums after interest and standard deferment
year 1 stafford loans: 24,580
year 1 grad loans: 34,318
year 2 stafford loans: 23,293
year 2 grad loans: 35,737
year 3 stafford loans: 22,007
year 3 grad loans: 36,839

debt at repayment: 176,775
(calculated via lawschool22's cost comparison calculator)

neeksneeks wrote:

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

yeah this. it should be an auto perma ban to advise someone to debt finance sticker cost at UVA

But you made serious tactical mistakes in not applying/withdrawing from Duke and Cornell. Even if you didnt want to go, those schools are the ticket to getting you better offers.

That said, if 105K is your full COA at GTown, I think that is a fair price to pay. It's not ideal and you could do better with another cycle and a retake, but I wouldn't say taking that offer is a bad decision. Do not consider Vandy with that scholarship; they really low-balled you.

The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

I wish Vanderbilt had given me more, and I haven't ruled out attempting to negotiate more from them/waiting to hear if I get picked for second round of the full scholly + stipend. But with COL taken into account, Vandy would be significantly cheaper, despite the lack of extra scholarship money.

Ah. Yeah 135 is a lot. I would have a harder time doing that. Yeah if you get a fully at Vandy, that's a legit option. Otherwise you should try another cycle and fully blanket the T14 (and retake).

Brut wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

are you debt financing everything
or are you/your family paying partly out of pocket

I've got some money saved up from the three years that I've been working since I graduated undergrad, but for the most part, it'll all be loans.

neeksneeks wrote:

Brut wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

are you debt financing everything
or are you/your family paying partly out of pocket

I've got some money saved up from the three years that I've been working since I graduated undergrad, but for the most part, it'll all be loans.

how much are you paying out of pocket
i'll re-run the numbers

i made a mistake in my last post, i forgot about per year tuition inflation
actual debt at repayment ought to be 177,126

zombie mcavoy wrote:

neeksneeks wrote:

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:UVA sticker is better than 105k at GULC? Wut

yeah this. it should be an auto perma ban to advise someone to debt finance sticker cost at UVA

But you made serious tactical mistakes in not applying/withdrawing from Duke and Cornell. Even if you didnt want to go, those schools are the ticket to getting you better offers.

That said, if 105K is your full COA at GTown, I think that is a fair price to pay. It's not ideal and you could do better with another cycle and a retake, but I wouldn't say taking that offer is a bad decision. Do not consider Vandy with that scholarship; they really low-balled you.

The 105K is the scholarship offer I got from GULC. With COL taken into account, it would be about 135K in loans. Which, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure i'm entirely comfortable taking out.

I wish Vanderbilt had given me more, and I haven't ruled out attempting to negotiate more from them/waiting to hear if I get picked for second round of the full scholly + stipend. But with COL taken into account, Vandy would be significantly cheaper, despite the lack of extra scholarship money.

Ah. Yeah 135 is a lot. I would have a harder time doing that. Yeah if you get a fully at Vandy, that's a legit option. Otherwise you should try another cycle and fully blanket the T14 (and retake).

According to Brut, it looks like I totally lowballed the COA, by not including COL and COA increases. Realistically, I have already waited 3 years since graduating, not to say that I'm old or anything, but I'd like to get this show on the road, if you will. Also, the job that I currently have is one that very easily sucks you in until one day, you wake up and you've been here for 10 years and don't know how it happened. Basically, it's time for me to get out.