Top Law Schools

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Either do not go to law school, or do a shit ton more research on the profession, retake, and reapply to schools that actually make sense to attend. Good luck.

ETA was going to add some nuance as I got off mobile, but why did you delete the paragraph about how you "did not think/were not sure" that you actually wanted to be an attorney. That seems like a pretty important line.

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I would look into the employment numbers the ABA puts out. I think your chances at BigLaw at either school are almost zilch unless you're one of the top 5-10 graduates at your school.

At a school like Iowa or Wake Forest, realize that the only way you might get a job is by making connections in the local legal communities in those states and hustling during your 1L and 2L summers. So you may be stuck in NC or Iowa for awhile after school. Once you have some legal cache, you may be able to move around the country, but I wouldn't bank on being able to work wherever you want off the bat. Adding to that, if you are in private practice and build a book of business in an area, it becomes pretty difficult to leave and maintain your lifestyle unless you latch onto a lawyer or firm in another state that really needs help and doesn't mind that you won't bring in any clients for awhile.

If you're from DFW, you may want to return there. I don't know. I would think long and hard about where you want to live in 5 years and make your decision on that basis. It might be that neither of these schools is a good life choice if you want to be back in Texas in 5 years.

Thank you for your input.

You are right, off the bat, neither school offers too much opportunity to get a legal job anywhere in the nation. My plan would be after graduation to find work in the regional area of the school for maybe 5-10 years, pay off my minimal debt of living expenses in the meantime, build a resume, and then try to move back to DFW area for either a small-time legal position or an academic position at a law school.

Thank you again

Well going to one of these schools will close more doors than not. You'll graduate with limited legal prospects in the immediate region of either school (neither has any broad reach to speak of)(you have no ties to either region so your options are more limited than the already limited options each school offers), you'll be pigeonholed as a lawyer (in particular, one who couldn't find a job) if you immediately attempt to break into something unrelated to law, you'll have COL debt, and you will have spent three years building virtually no applicable skills and your pre-law skills will have seriously degraded.

Simply because you want to "keep your options open," you should not go to law school. You should explore your other options first; go to law school only if you are seriously convinced that you want to be a practicing attorney.

Go to Iowa if you want to live in that immediate region (meaning Iowa, not Minnesota, Wisconsin or Chicago) for a long time. Same applies to wake w/ its immediate area. They are local schools that do not serve wider regions. Do not go to either if you want biglaw. You are pretty clearly not truly committed to PI, and people who are not truly committed to PI from day one have a hard time getting work in PI.

Generally, unless you have a legitimate reason to move somewhere else (you do not), you should go to a school in your immediate region or you should go to a T13. Law school is not the time to try out a new region. Thus, retake and go to SMU or UT with a good scholarship, or go to a T13. Or don't go to law school.

Another "Iowa has a great library" post? I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

It sounds like you actually want to return to the Dallas area at some point. Attending either of these is a bad idea with that in mind. (I realize you want to get experience, build your resume, all of that, but it would MUCH easier and wiser to just attend a more local or national school).

Surely you have other schools to consider that would be a better fit? What are your numbers? What about SMU?

BTW, you likely won't have any other options other than being a lawyer out of law school. Other than unemployed of course. Go ahead and forget academic position from either of these schools. It sounds like you don't really know what you want to do, to be honest.

Ladzach wrote:I am looking for second opinions on which school is the best choice for me.

I have a full tuition scholarship to both Iowa University and Wake Forest
I like the idea of attending to both schools for different reasons.

Background: I am from DFW, and I am pretty flexible as far as where I want to live in the future. My interests in the legal field is mostly comprised of public interest law. I like the idea of having the option of a big law job, however.

I like the idea of going to Iowa because there isn't as many competing schools in the midwest region as there is in the mid-atlantic area. Their law library is amazing, though that isn't too significant. And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest is attractive because it is free. I also feel, based on my anecdotal experience, that Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach. I also like the weather a lot more in Winston Salem than Iowa.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

why would you not try for SMU, UH, or UT? Just wondering. You haven't provided any reasons as to why you applied to those schools. It appears really random. If you have ties to the DFW area, why would you not try to stay around here?

ilikebaseball wrote:

Ladzach wrote:I am looking for second opinions on which school is the best choice for me.

I have a full tuition scholarship to both Iowa University and Wake Forest
I like the idea of attending to both schools for different reasons.

Background: I am from DFW, and I am pretty flexible as far as where I want to live in the future. My interests in the legal field is mostly comprised of public interest law. I like the idea of having the option of a big law job, however.

I like the idea of going to Iowa because there isn't as many competing schools in the midwest region as there is in the mid-atlantic area. Their law library is amazing, though that isn't too significant. And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest is attractive because it is free. I also feel, based on my anecdotal experience, that Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach. I also like the weather a lot more in Winston Salem than Iowa.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

why would you not try for SMU, UH, Baylor or UT? Just wondering. You haven't provided any reasons as to why you applied to those schools. It appears really random. If you have ties to the DFW area, why would you not try to stay around here?

Thank you for you reply.

I am still waiting on UT, and that would be my choice because I have military benefits that I can use for half of the tuition costs and because they are the best school. I didn't apply to SMU because of their costs and bad scholarship reputations. I am waiting on Baylor, but they are pretty similar to SMU with cost. I applied to UH, and they gave me little scholarship despite being above their 75 percentiles, only 7,500 per year, perhaps because I had made the committee privy to my military benefits. Thus UH isn't a terrible option as it would coast 13,000 for in total for my JD plus living expenses, but I am still looking elsewhere.

I am sorry for not being more informative in my post. I really wast just curious to see the opinions of the two full ride schools mentioned.

Thank you again

Ladzach wrote:

ilikebaseball wrote:

Ladzach wrote:I am looking for second opinions on which school is the best choice for me.

I have a full tuition scholarship to both Iowa University and Wake Forest
I like the idea of attending to both schools for different reasons.

Background: I am from DFW, and I am pretty flexible as far as where I want to live in the future. My interests in the legal field is mostly comprised of public interest law. I like the idea of having the option of a big law job, however.

I like the idea of going to Iowa because there isn't as many competing schools in the midwest region as there is in the mid-atlantic area. Their law library is amazing, though that isn't too significant. And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest is attractive because it is free. I also feel, based on my anecdotal experience, that Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach. I also like the weather a lot more in Winston Salem than Iowa.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

why would you not try for SMU, UH, Baylor or UT? Just wondering. You haven't provided any reasons as to why you applied to those schools. It appears really random. If you have ties to the DFW area, why would you not try to stay around here?

Thank you for you reply.

I am still waiting on UT, and that would be my choice because I have military benefits that I can use for half of the tuition costs and because they are the best school. I didn't apply to SMU because of their costs and bad scholarship reputations. I am waiting on Baylor, but they are pretty similar to SMU with cost. I applied to UH, and they gave me little scholarship despite being above their 75 percentiles, only 7,500 per year, perhaps because I had made the committee privy to my military benefits. Thus UH isn't a terrible option as it would coast 13,000 for in total for my JD plus living expenses, but I am still looking elsewhere.

I am sorry for not being more informative in my post. I really wast just curious to see the opinions of the two full ride schools mentioned.

Thank you again

You can't use military benefits for all the schools? SMU doesn't have a bad scholly reputation, they just don't negotiate. But they usually offer alot. For example: SMU offered me more than Baylor, so I went to Baylor and they increased their offer by 18,000, and SMU was still a higher offer. If you could use your military benefit to help you at UT, couldn't you combine it with the offer you get from SMU or other schools?

err yeah SMU at a half ride, though not ideal, is a much better option here than either of the fullies. Sit this one out and retake the lsat for better scholarship odds at SMU and better odds at UT (half ride at in-state there is a no brainer). UH is not a great idea when DFW is your long-term goal and SMU with a modest COA is in reach.

ilikebaseball wrote:

Ladzach wrote:

ilikebaseball wrote:

Ladzach wrote:I am looking for second opinions on which school is the best choice for me.

I have a full tuition scholarship to both Iowa University and Wake Forest
I like the idea of attending to both schools for different reasons.

Background: I am from DFW, and I am pretty flexible as far as where I want to live in the future. My interests in the legal field is mostly comprised of public interest law. I like the idea of having the option of a big law job, however.

I like the idea of going to Iowa because there isn't as many competing schools in the midwest region as there is in the mid-atlantic area. Their law library is amazing, though that isn't too significant. And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest is attractive because it is free. I also feel, based on my anecdotal experience, that Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach. I also like the weather a lot more in Winston Salem than Iowa.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

why would you not try for SMU, UH, Baylor or UT? Just wondering. You haven't provided any reasons as to why you applied to those schools. It appears really random. If you have ties to the DFW area, why would you not try to stay around here?

Thank you for you reply.

I am still waiting on UT, and that would be my choice because I have military benefits that I can use for half of the tuition costs and because they are the best school. I didn't apply to SMU because of their costs and bad scholarship reputations. I am waiting on Baylor, but they are pretty similar to SMU with cost. I applied to UH, and they gave me little scholarship despite being above their 75 percentiles, only 7,500 per year, perhaps because I had made the committee privy to my military benefits. Thus UH isn't a terrible option as it would coast 13,000 for in total for my JD plus living expenses, but I am still looking elsewhere.

I am sorry for not being more informative in my post. I really wast just curious to see the opinions of the two full ride schools mentioned.

Thank you again

You can't use military benefits for all the schools? SMU doesn't have a bad scholly reputation, they just don't negotiate. But they usually offer alot. For example: SMU offered me more than Baylor, so I went to Baylor and they increased their offer by 18,000, and SMU was still a higher offer. If you could use your military benefit to help you at UT, couldn't you combine it with the offer you get from SMU or other schools?

Unfortunately no, private schools in Texas do not accept my military benefits. Perhaps I will apply to SMU just to see what they offer, but I do not fancy going in 100k debt with COL factored in. I applied to Baylor, and am waiting on the decision. But I am not optimistic about the cost of tuition their either. I am really holding out on UT and hope for the best.

deadpanic wrote:Another "Iowa has a great library" post? I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

It sounds like you actually want to return to the Dallas area at some point. Attending either of these is a bad idea with that in mind. (I realize you want to get experience, build your resume, all of that, but it would MUCH easier and wiser to just attend a more local or national school).

Surely you have other schools to consider that would be a better fit? What are your numbers? What about SMU?

BTW, you likely won't have any other options other than being a lawyer out of law school. Other than unemployed of course. Go ahead and forget academic position from either of these schools. It sounds like you don't really know what you want to do, to be honest.

This wasn't a post about the Iowa Law Library. It was briefly mentioned and acknowledged as insignificant. Please, refrain from being a jerk.

Secondly, I appreciate your reply. And yes, moving back to dfw is an idea, but as many others are assuming, that is not "my goal" to lave back to dfw. I applied to UT (waiting for decision), UHLC accepted and would pay 13k, and Baylor (waiting for info on scholly). I will apply to SMU I guess just to see.

Pretty clear you need to retake and go to UT, short of doing SMU or maybe UHouston. I wouldn't really wish Baylor on anyone, athough its numbers are OK if you want small firm lit and are OK with general craziness.

If you've heard only radio silence you're not looking good for this cycle. UT has fantastic placement everywhere in Texas and gives you some chance, albeit not a great one, to go to another part of the country for a while. Half ride at instate tuition is a great investment for someone in your position.

There is a large contingent of UT folks on this forum (myself included); we are all happy to answer any specific questions you might have. just post in one of the many UT-specific threads.

zombie mcavoy wrote:err yeah SMU at a half ride, though not ideal, is a much better option here than either of the fullies. Sit this one out and retake the lsat for better scholarship odds at SMU and better odds at UT (half ride at in-state there is a no brainer). UH is not a great idea when DFW is your long-term goal and SMU with a modest COA is in reach.

SMU at half tuition is a much better option?? SMU at half tuition comes to 75k in tuition costs plus COL in Dallas which will amount to roughly 125k in debt. Considering how unpredictable the legal market is, that is a dangerous decision. Definitely compared to a full ride at other schools, that have cheap COLs. In attending Iowa, with a full ride and paid job at the school as a research asst. in my 2nd and third years, my debt would come to roughly 20-25k, which I am confident I could pay off fairly quickly after a few years of work in the Iowa/midwest market.

Ideally, UT is of course the way to go. But SMU is definitely not at half tuition in my humble opinion.

Again, I appreciate your time.

Ladzach wrote:SMU at half tuition is a much better option?? SMU at half tuition comes to 75k in tuition costs plus COL in Dallas which will amount to roughly 125k in debt. Considering how unpredictable the legal market is, that is a dangerous decision. Definitely compared to a full ride at other schools, that have cheap COLs. In attending Iowa, with a full ride and paid job at the school as a research asst. in my 2nd and third years, my debt would come to roughly 20-25k, which I am confident I could pay off fairly quickly after a few years of work in the Iowa/midwest market.

Ideally, UT is of course the way to go. But SMU is definitely not at half tuition in my humble opinion.

Well, you really don't have any clue how legal hiring works, as evidenced by your master plan to nail DFW academia by become a small firm practitioner in Iowa.

But yes, taking extra debt, within reason, for a respected school in the region you want to be in is better than taking less debt to go to some random crap school across the country to try and work your way back. I agree that SMU at that debt level is dangerous -- I wouldn't do it -- but it is better than what you've presented. If you're going to be stubborn and decide not to retake, I simply would not go to law school. But if you did, I would go to SMU over what you have presented.

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Ladzach wrote:SMU at half tuition is a much better option?? SMU at half tuition comes to 75k in tuition costs plus COL in Dallas which will amount to roughly 125k in debt. Considering how unpredictable the legal market is, that is a dangerous decision. Definitely compared to a full ride at other schools, that have cheap COLs. In attending Iowa, with a full ride and paid job at the school as a research asst. in my 2nd and third years, my debt would come to roughly 20-25k, which I am confident I could pay off fairly quickly after a few years of work in the Iowa/midwest market.

Ideally, UT is of course the way to go. But SMU is definitely not at half tuition in my humble opinion.

Well, you really don't have any clue how legal hiring works, as evidenced by your master plan to nail DFW academia by become a small firm practitioner in Iowa.

But yes, taking extra debt, within reason, for a respected school in the region you want to be in is better than taking less debt to go to some random crap school across the country to try and work your way back. I agree that SMU at that debt level is dangerous -- I wouldn't do it -- but it is better than what you've presented. If you're going to be stubborn and decide not to retake, I simply would not go to law school. But if you did, I would go to SMU over what you have presented.

Sir, you are being silly with your straw man tactics with my supposed "master plan". It is not a master plan, simply an idea. It is not insane to think that I could POTENTIALLY come back to dfw and find a small time position after gaining legal experience in Iowa, and if that didn't work, a teaching position at a county college. I am not obsessed with banking big money for the duration of my life. I would come back to dfw because it MIGHT be nice. It would be an option. You are being a something of a jackass with your absolutism. Second, I never said DFW was the region I need/want to be in. Sure, it would be nice to come back one day in the future, but as I said previously, I am flexible. Lastly, Iowa is some "random crap school"?? That's a bit much considering their employment numbers and ATL footing.

Ladzach wrote: Sir, you are being silly with your straw man tactics with my supposed "master plan". It is not a master plan, simply an idea. It is not insane to think that I could POTENTIALLY come back to dfw and find a small time position after gaining legal experience in Iowa, and if that didn't work, a teaching position at a county college. I am not obsessed with banking big money for the duration of my life. I would come back to dfw because it MIGHT be nice. It would be an option. You are being a something of a jackass with your absolutism. Second, I never said DFW was the region I need/want to be in. Sure, it would be nice to come back one day in the future, but as I said previously, I am flexible. Lastly, Iowa is some "random crap school"?? That's a bit much considering their employment numbers and ATL footing.

All right then, good luck to you. It is better to minimize debt when chasing (fake) prestige, at least.

And yes, Iowa is a random crap school. It's not a crap school for Iowans, but you're from DFW.

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Ladzach wrote: Sir, you are being silly with your straw man tactics with my supposed "master plan". It is not a master plan, simply an idea. It is not insane to think that I could POTENTIALLY come back to dfw and find a small time position after gaining legal experience in Iowa, and if that didn't work, a teaching position at a county college. I am not obsessed with banking big money for the duration of my life. I would come back to dfw because it MIGHT be nice. It would be an option. You are being a something of a jackass with your absolutism. Second, I never said DFW was the region I need/want to be in. Sure, it would be nice to come back one day in the future, but as I said previously, I am flexible. Lastly, Iowa is some "random crap school"?? That's a bit much considering their employment numbers and ATL footing.

All right then, good luck to you. It is better to minimize debt when chasing (fake) prestige, at least.

And yes, Iowa is a random crap school. It's not a crap school for Iowans, but you're from DFW.

Again, you arguing against a brick wall. Who said I am chasing prestige?? I have modest expectations with regards to my law endeavor. You are attacking a position that is not my own.

I have heard of these childish internet wars, but I never thought I would find myself in one.

Good day to you sir.

Ladzach wrote:Who said I am chasing prestige??

Iowa is some "random crap school"?? That's a bit much considering their employment numbers and ATL footing.

And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach.

zombie mcavoy wrote:

Ladzach wrote:Who said I am chasing prestige??

Iowa is some "random crap school"?? That's a bit much considering their employment numbers and ATL footing.

And though rankings aren't too important, they are ranked considerably higher than Wake Forest.

Wake Forest has a bit more notoriety in the legal field, giving them a bit more national reach.

Hahaha that isn't chasing prestige, sir. That is considering what school has more to offer. The employment numbers for Iowa are great, but I acknowledge that the salaries are modest, something around 75k. Which I am comfortable with. The potential national reach of a school is desired because it is always better to have options.

You clearly have nothing for me. Nice try though.

Ladzach wrote:Hahaha that isn't chasing prestige, sir. That is considering what school has more to offer. The employment numbers for Iowa are great, but I acknowledge that the salaries are modest, something around 75k. Which I am comfortable with. The potential national reach of a school is desired because it is always better to have options.

You clearly have nothing for me. Nice try though.

Dude. The employment numbers are not great. The very top of the class has a shot at biglaw -- you are probably not going to be there, like 90% of the class -- and the rest of the class dukes it out for Iowa small law. You at an incredible disadvantage going there as someone with no ties.

Employment numbers are a great metric for comparing schools in the T14, and for comparing schools that compete to serve the same markets. Just because x school in random flyover state has a 70% LST score does not mean any schmo can come into town and comfortably get a job, especially in a situation like this where you have no legitimate narrative as to why you are there, other than "Elie Mystal said it was OK!!" LST is not a complete tool for choosing a law school because of this, and the ATL rankings are laughable because of this. About as laughable as USNWR. And neither of these schools have anything close to "national" reach or reputation; you would be a fool to really think that.

So the Iowa law library is amazing thing is just one bored mega-poster's calling card that he/she is trolling the on topics I take it?

Just go to whichever has a nicer library

Wake 1L here. While Wake (or Iowa) isn't necessarily a bad idea on a full ride, I think you need to (1) be ok dropping out after first semester/year if your grades aren't at least good and (2) you're ok working for a modest salary in a non-"prestigious" job in NC/Iowa long-term.

You won't really have a shot at biglaw outside the top 15-20% at either school. They might be able to get you back to DFW, but it'll be a big uphill battle. You need to make a decision:

1. Do you want to ultimately work in DFW or TX? Any of the non-terrible schools in TX, even with some tuition debt, will be better than another limited regional across the country with a full ride. I.e., go to UT, SMU, UH, Baylor, or maybe Texas Tech for cheap (sounds like Houston might be your best current option, but I really think you should apply to SMU - I got a big scholly to Wake as well and SMU gave me 2/3 scholarship).
2. If not and you KNOW that you'd be ok permanently relocating to Iowa or NC, and you're ok with the two points above, then pick which place you'd rather live in.

But obviously, like others said, your best option is to retake/reapply and go to UT or SMU.