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Harvard vs nyu (100k) vs chicago (90k) vs duke (105k)

First time post- I am still waiting to hear back from Harvard about any potential scholarships, however I doubt I doubt I will get much in the way of need-based aid. My career goals are broad, and I can't say for sure what type of law I want to go into, but the idea of working 70 hours a week at big law isn't too thrilling for me. I think I'm leaning towards environmental law, possibly in government, but don't want to make a decision based on that since it may change. Just based on location, I would prefer nyu to Chicago since I want to stay on the east coast. I have 50k saved for school, but the remaining cost will be financed through student loans. I've never had student loans so I am a little wary of going into 200k in debt, but I am also having trouble with the idea of turning down Harvard. Help please…..

Extra info- still haven’t heard back from yale/Stanford, waitlisted at penn, on hold at Columbia. 176, 3.9

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With those numbers and the scholarships already on hand you should have little trouble negotiating up to a full ride from somewhere in the T14. Do that.

Ok, so with the scholarships included total COA is


Harvard- 255k
NYU- 152
Chicago- 153
Duke- 129

(Just got these numbers from the student expense budget on each schools website, minus the scholarships). It seems like for every school in the T-14 the estimated COA per year is 78-85k.

Tiago Splitter wrote:With those numbers and the scholarships already on hand you should have little trouble negotiating up to a full ride from somewhere in the T14. Do that.

Yup. Despite what some other people will tell you on this site, if you're interested in maximizing flexibility the best way to do so is to minimize debt. With your numbers there's no reason you should pay money to go to law school.

ryan77749 wrote:Ok, so with the scholarships included total COA is


Harvard- 255k
NYU- 152
Chicago- 153
Duke- 129

(Just got these numbers from the student expense budget on each schools website, minus the scholarships). It seems like for every school in the T-14 the estimated COA per year is 78-85k.

Tuition increases, loan origination fees, and interest that accrues during school (at 6.8 and 7.9%) will make the cost way higher. I would use the tool on Law School Transparency to calculate costs.

Nomo wrote:

ryan77749 wrote:Ok, so with the scholarships included total COA is


Harvard- 255k
NYU- 152
Chicago- 153
Duke- 129

(Just got these numbers from the student expense budget on each schools website, minus the scholarships). It seems like for every school in the T-14 the estimated COA per year is 78-85k.

Tuition increases, loan origination fees, and interest that accrues during school (at 6.8 and 7.9%) will make the cost way higher. I would use the tool on Law School Transparency to calculate costs.

Yeah, Harvard at debt-financed sticker is probably over 300k.

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Obviously the full ride would be TCR, but that doesn't happen for everyone. OP, did you not get anything from UVA? They were throwing out full rides like crazy earlier. If these were your final offers I would choose between NYU/Chi. Hopefully you can get these lowered though.

If you're unsuccessful at negotiating, I'd say NYU based on your preferences.

COL in hyde park is like half that of New York, something to think about at least

With those numbers, CLS might still come back with something, possibly a Hamilton! Many are turned down by people choosing Harvard and maybe they give them to others...good luck!

Nothing from uva, not even an offer of admission. I'm just really torn here because I know 90k seems like a lot now, but my friends who are lawyers keep telling me that Harvard is easily worth that compared to nyu (and I know conventional tls wisdom is to take the money and run)

ryan77749 wrote:Nothing from uva, not even an offer of admission. I'm just really torn here because I know 90k seems like a lot now, but my friends who are lawyers keep telling me that Harvard is easily worth that compared to nyu (and I know conventional tls wisdom is to take the money and run)

You still have time to make that decision. Go to ASW's if you can. Wait and see what other offers you get. As some applicants withdraw, new opportunities come up. Its only March 18!

True, I guess it's early. But some of the scholarships want an answer (seat deposit) by the end of April, so I guess I feel like I need to start making a decision. Maybe I'm missing something here

I know, NYU wants an answer by April 20 (which is the Monday after there AS event). But you are in the process of making a decision, which is what you should be doing now; obtaining and digesting all the information. I'm sure by 4/20 you will have more clarity!

What I don't get, is that I may not even hear an admissions decision from Yale or Stanford until 4/20, so obviously any financial aid info would take another few weeks. How is anyone supposed to make such a big decision without eve having all the info. Can you get extensions from schools like nyu and ask for another few weeks before you commit?

ryan77749 wrote:What I don't get, is that I may not even hear an admissions decision from Yale or Stanford until 4/20, so obviously any financial aid info would take another few weeks. How is anyone supposed to make such a big decision without eve having all the info. Can you get extensions from schools like nyu and ask for another few weeks before you commit?

They will extend for you following a nicely worded email explaining your circumstances.

ryan77749 wrote:What I don't get, is that I may not even hear an admissions decision from Yale or Stanford until 4/20, so obviously any financial aid info would take another few weeks. How is anyone supposed to make such a big decision without eve having all the info. Can you get extensions from schools like nyu and ask for another few weeks before you commit?

Chicago (Ruby) didn't let me extend the deadline for my decision in spite of the same circumstances. Not sure what NYU or Columbia would do, as I turned down Columbia as soon as I heard about the Ruby and I didn't apply to NYU.

One thing to also consider: losing a seat deposit is not that big a deal. I lost mine at Yale when I got in here off the WL. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money for a seat deposit is absolutely not enough that it should impact any later decision-making. As such, if that's the only thing that would hold you after committing to NYU...it's really not a big deal to change your mind if you get a Y/S acceptance later that you want to take. Obviously, if there is any more binding aspect to it, that changes things, but my deposit came with a form to sign that was like, "On this day with all the information I have, I plan to attend," or something similar to that in effect.

Instinctive wrote:

ryan77749 wrote:What I don't get, is that I may not even hear an admissions decision from Yale or Stanford until 4/20, so obviously any financial aid info would take another few weeks. How is anyone supposed to make such a big decision without eve having all the info. Can you get extensions from schools like nyu and ask for another few weeks before you commit?

Chicago (Ruby) didn't let me extend the deadline for my decision in spite of the same circumstances. Not sure what NYU or Columbia would do, as I turned down Columbia as soon as I heard about the Ruby and I didn't apply to NYU.

One thing to also consider: losing a seat deposit is not that big a deal. I lost mine at Yale when I got in here off the WL. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money for a seat deposit is absolutely not enough that it should impact any later decision-making. As such, if that's the only thing that would hold you after committing to NYU...it's really not a big deal to change your mind if you get a Y/S acceptance later that you want to take. Obviously, if there is any more binding aspect to it, that changes things, but my deposit came with a form to sign that was like, "On this day with all the information I have, I plan to attend," or something similar to that in effect.

+1

indo wrote:

Instinctive wrote:

ryan77749 wrote:What I don't get, is that I may not even hear an admissions decision from Yale or Stanford until 4/20, so obviously any financial aid info would take another few weeks. How is anyone supposed to make such a big decision without eve having all the info. Can you get extensions from schools like nyu and ask for another few weeks before you commit?

Chicago (Ruby) didn't let me extend the deadline for my decision in spite of the same circumstances. Not sure what NYU or Columbia would do, as I turned down Columbia as soon as I heard about the Ruby and I didn't apply to NYU.

One thing to also consider: losing a seat deposit is not that big a deal. I lost mine at Yale when I got in here off the WL. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money for a seat deposit is absolutely not enough that it should impact any later decision-making. As such, if that's the only thing that would hold you after committing to NYU...it's really not a big deal to change your mind if you get a Y/S acceptance later that you want to take. Obviously, if there is any more binding aspect to it, that changes things, but my deposit came with a form to sign that was like, "On this day with all the information I have, I plan to attend," or something similar to that in effect.

+1

This is accurate, you can place a seat deposit so long as you aren't holding any other current offers or acceptances from other schools; if you were admitted to Stanford or Yale and received a generous aid package after you made a first deposit, you could re-deposit there and renege on the prior school without violating any LSAC rules. You could even re-negotiate your position with the first school with the new offer. And certainly don't let a $500 deposit sway you one way or another here.

So I emailed duke asking to be considered for increased merit aid. Their response was that they would be happy to reconsider me, however it may not get done until mid/late April (April 20th is when I need to deposit at nyu). How am I supposed to have time to negotiate with chicago and nyu, if duke doesn't get back to me until then. It's not like I can ask duke to hurry up so I can use their scholarship to negotiate with nyu/chicago???? This whole process seems like a clusterfuck where students have to make decisions without all of their options on the table

ryan77749 wrote:So I emailed duke asking to be considered for increased merit aid. Their response was that they would be happy to reconsider me, however it may not get done until mid/late April (April 20th is when I need to deposit at nyu). How am I supposed to have time to negotiate with chicago and nyu, if duke doesn't get back to me until then. It's not like I can ask duke to hurry up so I can use their scholarship to negotiate with nyu/chicago???? This whole process seems like a clusterfuck where students have to make decisions without all of their options on the table

Well think about it from Duke's position--would you want to tie up scholarship money only to have your student leave you for another school? Duke wants to be the last school to make you an offer so you are more likely to matriculate at Duke. And the system is not set up so that students decisions with all possible options on the table; just as you are looking for the best school at the best price, schools are looking for the best students at the best price.

Yeah, but I guess what I was trying to find out is if there is a better way to go about the negotiating on my end. Because with all the deadlines, the whole "negotiating" seems unlikely.