Minnesota vs Emory vs GW Forum

[janborn]

On top of that, UMN doesn't really place outside of MN. According to last year's LST data, the only state it sent more than 5% of its class (~14 students) was to NY (to which it sent a whopping 5.8%). Not WI, not IA, SD, ND, or IL.

...
Anyways, OP: don't go to Minnesota unless you want to be in Minnesota.

This!

So I graduated from UMN in 2014 and while this is true to some extent, I think it's being overblown quite a bit. I'm clerking in Texas right now, I know there are some 2014 grads working for firms in Texas and California and I can think of four people working at firms in NYC. Small numbers obviously, but those are only people that I actually know of, I assume there are more. If LST is accurate, then 37% of 2013 grads left MN. That's 100 people, so I think it's kind of crazy to say that no one leaves Minnesota from the U.

The self-selection argument that someone made above is absolutely true in my mind as well. The majority of UMN students are from Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Iowa, and a few from Illinois and Michigan. Iowa and the Dakotas have basically no cities. Wisconsin only has Milwaukee which has an even smaller legal market than the twin cities. It's not like people would really want to go back to those states (I'm from Wisconsin originally and love it, but there aren't very many legal jobs). Also, if you don't mind the cold, the Twin Cities are a great place to live. Even some of my classmates from NYC or California liked it enough to stay.

Also, OP mentioned they were interested in IP. There are a good number of IP firms in the Twin Cities and it seems like everyone with a science background gets a job paying above market or at least market, even if their grades weren't the highest.

And if you want to live in a big city that isn't too big, the twin cities are smaller than Atlanta or DC. Traffic is also not bad at all (I can only compare it to Houston but Houston's is much much worse). UMN also really loves international students to come so there are a good number of Chinese students around, if that's important to you OP.

I'm not a delusional homer that thinks Minnesota is the greatest law school in the world, but considering a $0 COA I think it makes a lot of sense.

You opinion really helps a lot! Thank you!
I hope guys from Emory can tell me more about the shcool and city.

[lawdoggy]

If you're choosing based on USNWR, you're a fucking knob.

This is easy: GW. By a mile. If you want to do IP law, this is literally a no-fucking-brainer. GW has a HUGE IP Law program and places a lot of people at the USPTO, which is sought after like judicial clerkships.

Plus they're giving you 100k? C'mon.

I think the argument made above for MN is also good, but I would still go GW. Why you would even consider Emory is beyond me. It literally is the worst match for your aspirations.

[janborn]

If you're choosing based on USNWR, you're a fucking knob.

This is easy: GW. By a mile. If you want to do IP law, this is literally a no-fucking-brainer. GW has a HUGE IP Law program and places a lot of people at the USPTO, which is sought after like judicial clerkships.

Plus they're giving you 100k? C'mon.

I think the argument made above for MN is also good, but I would still go GW. Why you would even consider Emory is beyond me. It literally is the worst match for your aspirations.

Problem is even with the scholarship going to GW still means too much debt for me. I'm waiting for their final decision about my schilarship raise request.

Why Emory is such a bad choice, in your opinion? I have been told that Atlanta has a larger legal market that the twin cities, and winter in Minnesota is really cold.

[PeanutsNJam]

Plus they're giving you 100k? C'mon.

The number is COA, not scholarship money. I don't know a world where GW gives 100k and Minnesota gives 0.

[janborn]

Easy: GW.

If you want a smaller city vibe, frankly, DC accomplishes that. It's magnitude is not small but it is dense and has a neighborhoody vibe. ATL and MSP are different animals and offer their own plusses and minuses, but if you want 'less traffic' they certainly don't accomplish that. Bottom line, though, is that GW is the most recognizable and transporatable degree, and will open the most doors both regionally and outside its region.

Are you trolling? If not, this is not good.

First, traffic and population should have almost no bearing on your law school decision. They are factors you could weigh, I guess, if two schools were tied in substantive factors. And even if that's the case, DC traffic is better than MSP traffic? LOL.

The only factors you should care about are 1) placement power, 2) placement regions, and 3) cost of attendance.

1) All three have questionable placement power. If you're at the top of your class at Minnesota or Emory, I would still be concerned about your chances at a big firm, even as an IP person (also: what was your undergrad degree in?). George Washington places more folks into big firms, but not so many more that I would say it's worth > than another 100K. And if you miss out on biglaw at any of the three, the markets they feed into are very saturated, and an ESL dude from China is probably not going to have a leg up on the competition.

2) You need to give us a better idea of where you want to work and live over the long run. Minneapolis and Atlanta are tough nuts to crack, and neither school has any kind of serious national placement to speak of. GW is probably better in the respect that DC is a bigger market, but, again, I don't think it's worth the debt and risk you would have to take here.

3) Cost of attendance is fine at Minnesota or Emory, but I don't think either is a good choice for you goals. 100K at GW is not suicide, but it's a huge gamble that I would not advise one to take. If you have an in-demand IP degree that might allay some concern, but as an ESL student, you still might have a harder time than most people.

I would strongly advise you to sit this one out and retake the LSAT. Emory and Minnesota are poor options for your goals (or, at least, what I can make of them), and GW is too expensive/too much of a risk to take for its average placement power.

I have an applied physics bachelor degree and a juris master degree in China, I suppose those are some kind of advantages?

Yes, I plan to find a job in US.

Since GW has raised my award, in your opinion is it worth the debt?

To be honest, I'm wondering maybe a regional school like Emory will suit me better than GW, whose location means more opportunities as well as competitions.

[janborn]

Plus they're giving you 100k? C'mon.

The number is COA, not scholarship money. I don't know a world where GW gives 100k and Minnesota gives 0.

As a matter of fact, GW has raised my award to 99k, so...

[The Dark Shepard]

wait, are you factoring in housing costs in your COA?

[janborn]

wait, are you factoring in housing costs in your COA?

No. Am I supposed to? Maybe I should write tuition instead of COA.

[The Dark Shepard]

wait, are you factoring in housing costs in your COA?

No. Am I supposed to? Maybe I should write tuition instead of COA.

You should, presuming you will be financing that with student loans. Its a big factor, especially somewhere with a high COL like DC

[lawdoggy]

It's a simple as this: if you want to do patent law and you go to Emory over GW, you're abso-fucking-lutely insane. For all of the reasons I've outlined, GW is by far and away the best choice for someone on a patent law track. Period. The end. No competition. Is it worth the extra debt? Yes.

With all that said, I'll see you at GW in August. Stop me in between classes and thank me.

[janborn]

It's a simple as this: if you want to do patent law and you go to Emory over GW, you're abso-fucking-lutely insane. For all of the reasons I've outlined, GW is by far and away the best choice for someone on a patent law track. Period. The end. No competition. Is it worth the extra debt? Yes.

With all that said, I'll see you at GW in August. Stop me in between classes and thank me.

I made a mistake about the COA and tuition. With everything calculated, I updated the COA figures and GW will cost me 146K. Do you still think it's worth it?

[Nomo]

How hard is it to get a job with the USPTO when you aren't a citizen? And when you say GW places a lot of people there, exactly how many people are we talking about?

You're talking about spending a lot of money on a school with so-so employment data. This seems like a really bad idea.

[lawdoggy]

How hard is it to get a job with the USPTO when you aren't a citizen? And when you say GW places a lot of people there, exactly how many people are we talking about?

You're talking about spending a lot of money on a school with so-so employment data. This seems like a really bad idea.

As opposed to going to a school like Emory with far worse employment outcomes? OK.

And I don't know precisely how many people go to the USPTO every year, but I do know that they pull primarily from GW. Not to mention the fact that GW has the classes this guy needs if he wants to practice patent law. As a non-citizen, he could at least get summer internships there or with firms in the area doing patent law. Certainly there are far more opportunities for this in DC than anywhere else.

In any event, Emory is by far the worst choice on this guy's plate for his aspirations.