Top Law Schools

bankofmouse wrote:As a recent graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, my number one piece of advice in deciding to attend STMU is to set your expectations accordingly. STMU is consistently ranked in the 4th tier and in recent years its bar passage rate has hovered around second to last in the state. However, that being said, STMU does not attempt to be a national 4th tier JD mill like some schools. One of the advantages of St. Mary’s is the fact that it is the only law school located within a decent-sized city (San Antonio – 1.4 million). Because of that, most graduates are successful in obtaining employment as attorneys (hence the high employment rate in ranking stats). However, before you get too excited, this is where expectations have to be managed. Most of my classmates went on to work for small firms (think 5-10 attorneys or less), the DA’s office, non-profits, or are attempting to go it alone. Biglaw placements in San Antonio are a rare exception for St. Mary’s grads. For example, from what I can peruse from their website, Akin Gump’s San Antonio office has 1 Partner and 1 Senior Attorney , and 0 associates who graduated from St. Mary’s. The vast majority of the more recent associates came from UT. Similarly, Norton Rose Fulbright (previously Fulbright & Jaworski), has 4 associates and 5 counsels (not sure what the difference between the two is) who graduated from St. Mary’s. Those attorneys came from the classes of 1987, 1996, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Additionally Strasburger has 4 associates from the classes of 1992, 2009, and 2014. Point is—there are occasional biglaw positions that come up, but they are sporadic and an applicant should not by any means attend STMU with the expectation of a biglaw job—even if you are at the top of the class with law review etc. The big question that most prospective students have is how much they can expect to make at their first job. Based on anecdotal evidence from discussions with some of my former classmates, I would advise a potential applicant to expect to land a job earning about $40-$50k right out of school and plan accordingly.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:do you work for the school

bankofmouse wrote:As a recent graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, my number one piece of advice in deciding to attend STMU is to set your expectations accordingly. STMU is consistently ranked in the 4th tier and in recent years its bar passage rate has hovered around second to last in the state. However, that being said, STMU does not attempt to be a national 4th tier JD mill like some schools. One of the advantages of St. Mary’s is the fact that it is the only law school located within a decent-sized city (San Antonio – 1.4 million). Because of that, most graduates are successful in obtaining employment as attorneys (hence the high employment rate in ranking stats). However, before you get too excited, this is where expectations have to be managed. Most of my classmates went on to work for small firms (think 5-10 attorneys or less), the DA’s office, non-profits, or are attempting to go it alone. Biglaw placements in San Antonio are a rare exception for St. Mary’s grads. For example, from what I can peruse from their website, Akin Gump’s San Antonio office has 1 Partner and 1 Senior Attorney , and 0 associates who graduated from St. Mary’s. The vast majority of the more recent associates came from UT. Similarly, Norton Rose Fulbright (previously Fulbright & Jaworski), has 4 associates and 5 counsels (not sure what the difference between the two is) who graduated from St. Mary’s. Those attorneys came from the classes of 1987, 1996, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Additionally Strasburger has 4 associates from the classes of 1992, 2009, and 2014. Point is—there are occasional biglaw positions that come up, but they are sporadic and an applicant should not by any means attend STMU with the expectation of a biglaw job—even if you are at the top of the class with law review etc. The big question that most prospective students have is how much they can expect to make at their first job. Based on anecdotal evidence from discussions with some of my former classmates, I would advise a potential applicant to expect to land a job earning about $40-$50k right out of school and plan accordingly.

zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?

I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.

Don't go to this school!

DaRascal wrote:Sorry, Nony, just wanted to share how I would pick if I were in OP's position.

rpupkin wrote:

zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?

I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.

Don't go to this school!

Stop doing this pointless ranking thing. You have a cage for a reason.

rpupkin wrote:I know folks are having fun shitting all over the OP and the OP's law school, but I'm not sure that schools like St. Mary's are the biggest problem with legal education. Its LSN employment scores are better than those of the dumpster fires at Hastings and American. (Actually, St. Mary's LSN score looks similar to those of many of the schools ranked between 40 and 50.) The school charges $33K/yr instead of $50K/yr. And it's located in a city with a relatively low COA.

I'm not saying the typical St. Mary's 1L has made a great career decision. But if you get some modest financial aid, want to work as a lawyer in San Antonio, and go into the school with the OP's attitude (which is basically reasonable), you're making a defensible choice.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.

Don't go to this school!

Stop doing this pointless ranking thing. You have a cage for a reason.

Nony, you know I love you and I think all the mods do great work but take him out behind the woodshed already.

zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?

I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.