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Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:57 pm
by SquedTheScholar

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:03 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
well they're 12th in BL+FC (57%) so really more accurate

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm
by starry eyed
So "DVP" it is.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:22 pm
by usernotfound
...

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:25 pm
by Mal Reynolds
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:54 pm
by r1tlv50
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.
Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?

I don't have any ties to Michigan...

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:01 pm
by CaptainJapan
Mal Reynolds wrote:A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.

+100 TLS street cred for hating on bottom-half t14s

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:04 pm
by ballcaps
r1tlv50 wrote:
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.
Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?
i thought there was some sarcasm floating around? maybe not...

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:08 pm
by r1tlv50
r1tlv50 wrote:
Quote:
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.


Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?


i thought there was some sarcasm floating around? maybe not...
I dunno, there's nothing to suggest it from that short of a post. I hope so though, but there isn't really a limit to how far some people have their heads up their asses over 'preftige' (reason number 11989878 people generally don't like lawyers)

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:35 pm
by Mal Reynolds
I'm sorry people must not be evaluating law schools on job placement data anymore.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 pm
by r1tlv50
lol don't think jobs have ever been the number one consideration for any published lists...there's always been some hot air thrown into the equation

i just looked and mich does have a low biglaw + fedclerk score though. presumably average COA is also lower than other t14s

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:37 pm
by Mal Reynolds
r1tlv50 wrote:lol don't think jobs have ever been the number one consideration for any published lists...there's always been some hot air thrown into the equation

i just looked and mich does have a low biglaw + fedclerk score though. presumably average COA is also lower than other t14s
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:53 pm
by r1tlv50
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.
50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:56 pm
by Tiago Splitter
r1tlv50 wrote:
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.
50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid
Mal just did the work for you. It doesn't.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:18 pm
by r1tlv50
r1tlv50 wrote:
Quote:
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.


50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid
Mal just did the work for you. It doesn't.
Oh okay 250 v. 280 was from the profiles. Really hoping I can avoid throwing down the COL they're estimating, but that's a different topic.

In any event, it's not night and day the way "terrible school" suggests.

Also kinda odd Penn outperforms Mich on the biglaw stuff pretty heavily some years yet they're considered peers

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:21 pm
by Mal Reynolds
They're not peers at all. Penn is clearly superior.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:26 pm
by zhongxiaozhui
Mal Reynolds wrote:They're not peers at all. Penn is clearly superior.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:31 pm
by r1tlv50
haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:32 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
Penn has a higher BL+FC % than NYU, so yeah

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:41 pm
by 052220152
virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:44 pm
by BigZuck
r1tlv50 wrote:haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn
Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:45 pm
by 84651846190
Jim Jones wrote:virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money
Yeah, if you're dead set on biglaw, Cornell might be the best bang for your LSAT points and/or $$$ if you can't get into a T6.

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:47 pm
by 052220152
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Jim Jones wrote:virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money
Yeah, if you're dead set on biglaw, Cornell might be the best bang for your LSAT points and/or $$$ if you can't get into a T6.
cornell needs to get more love, who gives two shits if it mostly feeds to nyc, those numbers are fuckin golden

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:08 pm
by r1tlv50
r1tlv50 wrote:
haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn

Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.
penn v. nyu in particular makes me wonder though. just on very general evaluations of the schools (biglaw and clerk percentages, gpa/lsat), it seems like penn's got the advantage in everything but the lsat percentiles

Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:17 pm
by sims1
r1tlv50 wrote:
r1tlv50 wrote:
haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn

Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.
penn v. nyu in particular makes me wonder though. just on very general evaluations of the schools (biglaw and clerk percentages, gpa/lsat), it seems like penn's got the advantage in everything but the lsat percentiles
I don't think Penn beats NYU in big law (even if it's just because of proximity to law firms). The differential can in part be explained by people with good grades self-selecting out of the biglaw route at NYU for PI.