Top Law Schools

Choosing between:

Emory: $111k total COA
William & Mary: $98k total COA
Georgia: $75k total COA

Good scholarships from each, although I plan on negotiating once I see if I get in anywhere else. Paying the rest with an even split of loans and family support.

From Maryland, obviously, with professional ties in DC and a network in Baltimore. Would be fine with returning to DC/MD, but open to most places in the southeast or mid-Atlantic. I'm looking to go into environmental law (I have a master's in environmental policy), but I have an open mind about practice area. Ideally looking to end up at a boutique firm specializing in environmental law.

Still waiting on some T14 responses but doubt I'll get money if I even get in. Also in at GW at sticker, but not seriously considering.

W&M is your best bet with your ties.

Pragmatic Gun wrote:W&M is your best bet

+1.

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buckiguy_sucks wrote:No money at GW seems odd to me given your COA numbers at Emory and W&M

Yeah I don't know what their deal is. Emory is giving me $102k scholarship but then nothing from GW. Not sure if it's just in the wings or what. Given size, employment prospects, and cost, I think I'd take Emory over GW even with a comparable offer.

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imKMart wrote:

Pragmatic Gun wrote:W&M is your best bet

+1.

I agree, but keep negotiating and try to get COA down another 15-20k. Are you out of retakes? If not, worthwhile to retake in June at least for the possible scholarship increase

First, wait for GW's offer. Those are usually released later.

Otherwise, W&M is best bet. And I agree to try and knock it down at least 15-20k

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Any reason besides connections to prefer W&M to Emory? Would going to Emory significantly handicap me if I did try to move back to the mid-Atlantic?

Marylander25 wrote:Thanks for the advice, everyone. Any reason besides connections to prefer W&M to Emory? Would going to Emory significantly handicap me if I did try to move back to the mid-Atlantic?

I don't think it would handicap you, but W&M is already in the mid-atlantic so you'll have more employers from the region than you would at Emory. GW is probably the best of your options but only if COA gets down to the range of your other three choices

When I was looking at W&M last year, it seemed like they had a lot of people headed to northern VA, MD, and DC (with VA obviously being the most common by far). It would probably be hard to get a job in DC from Emory and UGA. And I probably wouldn't do those schools without ties to the south. So, W&M seems like your best bet. That price is a little high though...I'd try to get them to $80k-ish or below.

^ and ^^ make perfect sense. I'm really very open to living in Atlanta, though. Fiancee's company has an office there that she could transfer to from DC, and it seems like the Atlanta legal market is less saturated with grads from elite schools than the DC metro area. If I wanted to stay in ATL instead, would that change things?

I think thats too much to spend for Emory (or any of them really, but definitely too much for Emory). I wouldn't try to take an Emory degree to DC, and I also probably wouldn't chance a southern market without ties. So yeah, I think Emory is out. Don't get tricked into thinking its ranking matters, its placement isn't particularly good and its kind of a trap school (alongside schools like GW). It's not even a Vandy, let alone a Duke.

What do you mean by environmental law at a boutique firm? Can you post a link to the type of firm you're thinking of?

Marylander25 wrote:^ and ^^ make perfect sense. I'm really very open to living in Atlanta, though. Fiancee's company has an office there that she could transfer to from DC, and it seems like the Atlanta legal market is less saturated with grads from elite schools than the DC metro area. If I wanted to stay in ATL instead, would that change things?

Even if you wanted ATL, I don't think Emory is good at that price. The ATL market is not as saturated as DC, but it is still not a booming market right now. It is a very tough market to crack and even good grades from UVA or Duke do not necessarily guarantee a a job there.

Agree with Zuck that Emory & GW are trap schools.

If you want to work in Atlanta, to go UGA. It's certainly not easy, but it gives you a shot at Georgia employment for the smallest price.

If you want to be in DC, of your choices, go to W&M.

Really, this comes down to you not knowing where you want to practice. While there are people from every school who end up leaving for other markets, realize that when you choose a school, you're pretty much choosing that market.

Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

kroakstool wrote:Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

kroakstool wrote:Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

no

(Anecdata Alert) - I hear... concerning things about W&M's employment outcomes, especially from some acquaintances who went there. My wife was a W&M undergrad and knew a fair amount of people who went on the W&M's law school - so I know a smattering of people but didn't go there and can't comment on changing quality of the institution.

Obviously it's not t14/t6/whatever, but if anyone can chime in on whether W&M is going in a downwards direction it'd be good info. Relative to the other choices, I think it's probably the best best (lol @ GW sticker), but I worry that it's merely the lesser of multiple evils.

I second that ^. It'd be great if someone could enlighten me on relative employment outcomes between the schools irrespective of where I think I might want to practice. I know Emory has a lot of grads in school-funded positions, but how soon (if ever) do these grads move on to other jobs? Does W&M not have these problems?

Additional background: I'd be living with my SO, who works in DC for a major consulting firm that also has a large office in ATL that she can and would transfer to.

kroakstool wrote:Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

Oh, so top 10-15% at UGA is golden? You don't say?

OP, this is idiotic advice.

romothesavior wrote:

kroakstool wrote:Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

Oh, so top 10-15% at UGA is golden? You don't say?

OP, this is idiotic advice.

OP's numbers also suggest that he/she will be top of the class!!!

kroakstool wrote:Given everything you've said, I would say UGA would be a great place for you. BigLaw in Atlanta is pretty much assured if you perform like your numbers suggest you will. But the achool's reach is growing too. Pretty much anyone who wanted a job in DC in the class of 2015 has gotten a job in DC (so long as they are around top 15% of the class). And I can say from personal experience that law firms in other markets are gaining respect for UGA grads. I am a 3L, non-diversity, male, and I'm only top ten or so in my class, but I've got a job at a top 5 firm in New York. I think any market is open to you at UGA so long as you work hard and make your goals known to the career services office. Also, Athens beats the pants off those other schools as far as atmosphere. Saturdays in Athens in the fall are the best!

So that happened.

zacharus85 wrote:(Anecdata Alert) - I hear... concerning things about W&M's employment outcomes, especially from some acquaintances who went there. My wife was a W&M undergrad and knew a fair amount of people who went on the W&M's law school - so I know a smattering of people but didn't go there and can't comment on changing quality of the institution.

Obviously it's not t14/t6/whatever, but if anyone can chime in on whether W&M is going in a downwards direction it'd be good info. Relative to the other choices, I think it's probably the best best (lol @ GW sticker), but I worry that it's merely the lesser of multiple evils.

It's not that the school's prospects are going down, it's that they were never particularly great except maybe for a year or two during the boomiest boomtimes. It's always going to be a regional schoolthat mostly places into smaller firms or government just with DC options for the tip top of the class. One thing that would seriously concern me, though, is the 20% school-funded rate for the last two years. When you subtract those jobs the school is placing 55% in FTLT legal jobs, which is to be expected for a mediocre school in a saturated market. Still, 75K overall is not a terrible investment decision, although 100K is pushing it.

If I was OP I would wait on GW and then start heavily negotiating.

timbs4339 wrote:One thing that would seriously concern me, though, is the 20% school-funded rate for the last two years. When you subtract those jobs the school is placing 55% in FTLT legal jobs, which is to be expected for a mediocre school in a saturated market.

If Emory is really 55% FTLT jobs, that is likely worse than state flagships like Montana, New Mexico, Arkansas.

(This is without looking at LST, but the state flagships are probably similar or no worse)

deadpanic wrote:

timbs4339 wrote:One thing that would seriously concern me, though, is the 20% school-funded rate for the last two years. When you subtract those jobs the school is placing 55% in FTLT legal jobs, which is to be expected for a mediocre school in a saturated market.

If Emory is really 55% FTLT jobs, that is likely worse than state flagships like Montana, New Mexico, Arkansas.

(This is without looking at LST, but the state flagships are probably similar or no worse)

Looking at the 2013 data, Emory and GW would both be about at 60% with W&M about 55% and UGA at a scorching 68%.

And you're right: Montana 69%, Arkansas 66%, New Mexico 73%. WUSTL comes in at a 66% (still waiting on them, but I have the numbers so I'll include for the sake of advice).

In light of these numbers, does it change anyone's suggestions?

And thanks again for what has been (mostly) constructive feedback.