Top Law Schools

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If you want to practice in Chicago, I'd choose UIUC.

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

What do you mean by "business/commercial law"? It sounds to me like you want biglaw, which means you probably need to go to a T14 school.

Mullens wrote:

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

What do you mean by "business/commercial law"? It sounds to me like you want biglaw, which means you probably need to go to a T14 school.

Helping small businesses and entrepreneurs, contracts, I don't know I haven't decided yet. Everyone says to go to T14 for biglaw but I have known several people to come out of Maurer with careers in business/commercial law. Ideal to go to T14? Yes. Realistic for me? No. I am just not convinced that a career in business law is doomed coming out of either of these two schools.

Objectively, UIUC.
Unless you really want Indianapolis or something.

Mullens wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

I feel like this got overlooked.

You aren't giving us the full picture, but...

Between the two of them, pick Indiana if you want to work in Indiana, and Illinois if you want to work in Illinois.

If you want Biglaw, neither. Retake.

If your idea of "business/commercial law" is some manner of boutique firm, you're gambling either way.

If you want good advice, you should provide the information I requested in my first post.

Where do you want to work?

If, Illinois, then pick Illinois. Or, if, Indiana, then go to Indiana.

Are you in state for either?

Illinois seems to be a bit more portable than Indiana. I lived in Michigan for several years, and Illinois was well respected, and beat out Indiana grads.

If it was me, I would go with Illinois.

Louis1127 wrote:

Mullens wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

I feel like this got overlooked.

Honestly I did overlook this lol sorry about that. I am considering these two schools. My LSAT was a 161 (took once) and my GPA is a 3.82. Considering I received full scholarships at both the cost of fees and living seem rather minor to me only because they would balance out to be about the same, I'll need loans for cost of living either way. I'm from Illinois but have no significant ties, and I'm open minded as to where I will end up working. I don't have much more to add to my general career goals than what I have already stated. Does anyone have anything to add about what the community and/or living is like in either of these two areas? I have heard great things about the Bloomington atmosphere and campus but haven't heard much about UIUC.

Wingtip88 wrote:You aren't giving us the full picture, but...

Between the two of them, pick Indiana if you want to work in Indiana, and Illinois if you want to work in Illinois.

If you want Biglaw, neither. Retake.

If your idea of "business/commercial law" is some manner of boutique firm, you're gambling either way.

This is spot on.

If you want Illinois, go to Illinois. If you want Indiana, go to Indiana. Either way, be okay with the fact that big law is unlikely.

Also, consider retaking the LSAT. You are selling yourself way short of you only took once, especially with that GPA.

What a waste of a good GPA.

Bloomington is way cooler than UC.

InTheHouse wrote:What a waste of a good GPA.

Bloomington is way cooler than UC.

It's hard for me to consider my GPA a waste when it played a crucial role in getting me free tuition at two tier 1 law schools. While biglaw is statistically unlikely, it it obviously not true that it is impossible. I do appreciate your input on the town, which is much of what I wanted to hear about (not my chances at biglaw). I also am not dead set on the idea that I will get into biglaw.

lawschoolbound13 wrote:

InTheHouse wrote:What a waste of a good GPA.

Bloomington is way cooler than UC.

It's hard for me to consider my GPA a waste when it played a crucial role in getting me free tuition at two Tier 1 law schools. While biglaw is statistically unlikely, it it obviously not true that it is impossible. I do appreciate your input on the town, which is much of what I wanted to hear about (not my chances at biglaw). I also am not dead set on the idea that I will get into biglaw.

Of course it played a crucial in your getting full-tuition scholarships. Its just that you could have done a lot more with a 3.82. A few more correctly answered questions on the LSAT and you're looking at a free ride at Northwestern and possibly a couple of other T14s.

I've spent just a couple weekends in UC and did grad school in B-town...I think the people are cooler at IUB largely bc UC is filled with kids from Chicago that go home a lot. IU was a great place. I lived alone one year and paid $600 for a small but very cool studio apartment within walking distance of campus and then split a large townhouse with 3 roommates about 2 miles from campus and paid $350 second year.

I go to UIUC and have spent a lot of time in Bloomington. Bloomington is probably cooler, but CU is a lot better than I thought it would be and it is an easy train ride or drive to Chicago, Indy, and St. Louis. Feel free to PM me if you have questions about it.

But I agree with everyone else. UIUC if you want to be in Illinois or St. Louis, Indiana if you want to be in Indiana.

Full ride at UIUC is great, I took it over a higher ranked schools and it has worked out great for me. But I was also a splitter. You should at least retake the LSAT in June and see if you can get in the upper 160s.

Full ride at Illinois is a great outcome...if you're a splitter. You're the opposite. Answer five or six more questions correctly and you're looking at serious money from schools like Northwestern and Michigan. Retake. There are people and resources on this forum that will help you maximize your chances at a great score. Don't waste that great GPA on either of these schools.

You really need to retake the LSAT. You have a GPA that allows you to attend some of the best law schools in the country and you're going to settle for regional schools because you don't want to retake the LSAT. This is the most important decision of your life and the job outcomes between these two schools and the T14 are too great for either IUB or UIUC to be a good decision.

"Business/commercial law" probably means you're almost certainly going to need to start your career in biglaw and neither IUB or UIUC give you a strong enough shot at it for either one to be worth attending, even with a full scholarship. Your GPA allows you to get similar scholarships at much better schools. Retake.

Business and commercial law sounds right on for UIUC. They have a "Chicago Program" which lets you spend half your 3L year in the city taking classes at BigLaw firms. UIUC sends 25% to BigLaw while IU sends only 13%.

Objectively speaking Illinois would be the right call for an Illinois resident with your interests.

Subjectively, it might not be better...

Champaign isn't as fun as Bloomington and U of I in general is not nearly as spirited as most other B1G schools. Engineering takes all of the limelight, and law seems to be forgotten. The law building itself is a nasty piece of work, isolated on south campus away from pretty much everything. UI in general is a depressing school to be at for a lot of people. It lacks the character, enthusiasm, and loyalty of a lot of other places. The girls here are also pretty meh compared to places like IU, MSU, and PSU.

HOWEVER

The law students are pretty chill, all of the professors are excellent, the school is well respected academically (esp. in Chicago), no one is really panicking about jobs, and the cost of living is low. Also the bar and restaurant scene is pretty solid. It's not undergrad anymore, and I think it would be wise to consider your professional objectives before your social objectives (cue RETAKE chants).

Again, objectively it's the right choice, but subjectively I could see why IUB is intriguing; and for the record I had a friend who went to IUB law and got a job straight away in North Carolina so, anecdotally at least, it's not a bad school.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'm facing a very similar decision with a couple other finalists involved. I am an Indiana resident with an almost in-state full ride to IU-B (haven't started negotiating, hoping to raise it there when I start in March since I'm very close) and already have an out of state full ride to UIUC. Not gonna do a full blown "choose a law school" thread until my COA's are finalized since I am waiting to hear from other regionals where I have ties (ND and Moritz specifically), just have a couple Q's regarding these two schools.

1. If I ended up choosing UIUC, as an Indiana resident, am I giving up on any Indiana ties I could have exploited had I gone to Indiana? Or is that effect not as drastic since I didn't leave for somewhere like NYC or Cali? I actually prefer Chicago over Indy/anywhere in Indiana all else equal, but I wouldn't want to automatically take myself out of Indiana jobs because I left the state. I know I would be invisible to any Chicago jobs if I'm not top quarter at least if I'm a Hoosier that goes to IU-B, just seeing if my fears of not being able to go back home are legitimate here or can be overcome with persuasive cover letters and interview responses.

2. I am coming in to law school with zero undergrad debt and will presumably be leaving it with zero debt (cross fingers for negotiation results) since I am a spoiled shit whose parents are covering cost of living. So while I am open to big law if I am lucky enough to have the opportunity, I am no where near dead set on it. I'm sure there are good and crappy non-big law options from both of these schools, but does anyone have any insight on which school offers better/more tolerable median outcomes? I have been favoring UIUC since their full ride is already guaranteed, I prefer Chicago, and their big law placement compared to IU-B gives me slightly more wiggle room in being considered for that type of job (although I'm aware it's no where near likely). I think the big thing in IU-B's favor however is that with my Indiana ties, I probably have more median outcomes available to me there. That's just my own speculation though, so if I am mistaken (which is possible since UIUC's LST score is 10% better), please correct me. I should mention I do have Illinois ties also (some family in the Chi suburbs and two attorneys in Chicago, one that is a relative), but not as many or as strong.

Thanks for any help guys, I know these were long questions I just wanted to give some background.

enkle wrote:Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'm facing a very similar decision with a couple other finalists involved. I am an Indiana resident with an almost in-state full ride to IU-B (haven't started negotiating, hoping to raise it there when I start in March since I'm very close) and already have an out of state full ride to UIUC. Not gonna do a full blown "choose a law school" thread until my COA's are finalized since I am waiting to hear from other regionals where I have ties (ND and Moritz specifically), just have a couple Q's regarding these two schools.

1. If I ended up choosing UIUC, as an Indiana resident, am I giving up on any Indiana ties I could have exploited had I gone to Indiana? Or is that effect not as drastic since I didn't leave for somewhere like NYC or Cali? I actually prefer Chicago over Indy/anywhere in Indiana all else equal, but I wouldn't want to automatically take myself out of Indiana jobs because I left the state. I know I would be invisible to any Chicago jobs if I'm not top quarter at least if I'm a Hoosier that goes to IU-B, just seeing if my fears of not being able to go back home are legitimate here or can be overcome with persuasive cover letters and interview responses.

2. I am coming in to law school with zero undergrad debt and will presumably be leaving it with zero debt (cross fingers for negotiation results) since I am a spoiled shit whose parents are covering cost of living. So while I am open to big law if I am lucky enough to have the opportunity, I am no where near dead set on it. I'm sure there are good and crappy non-big law options from both of these schools, but does anyone have any insight on which school offers better/more tolerable median outcomes? I have been favoring UIUC since their full ride is already guaranteed, I prefer Chicago, and their big law placement compared to IU-B gives me slightly more wiggle room in being considered for that type of job (although I'm aware it's no where near likely). I think the big thing in IU-B's favor however is that with my Indiana ties, I probably have more median outcomes available to me there. That's just my own speculation though, so if I am mistaken (which is possible since UIUC's LST score is 10% better), please correct me. I should mention I do have Illinois ties also (some family in the Chi suburbs and two attorneys in Chicago, one that is a relative), but not as many or as strong.

Thanks for any help guys, I know these were long questions I just wanted to give some background.

If you want big law, go to a T14

If you want small firm/local gov type work, then go to a strong regional in the region you want to practice

I can understand wanting to have your cake and eat it too but that's not typically how this works. You can't say you want a shot at big law and geographic mobility and then go to the IUBs and UIUCs of the world.

Figure out what you want, and then go to a school that aligns with that.

Retake and go to NU/Chicago/Mich w/$$$

lol at any Bigten college town being anything other than the same as the rest.

Desert Fox wrote:lol at any Bigten college town being anything other than the same as the rest.

Spoken like someone who's never been to Madison or Ann Arbor.

bugsy33 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:lol at any Bigten college town being anything other than the same as the rest.

Spoken like someone who's never been to Madison or Ann Arbor.

I got a biglawl offer in Madison. I should have taken that.