Requesting more detailed alumni salary info Forum

[SBUalex]

What's the protocol for requesting NALP salary info from a school who doesn't make it public? I've been disheartened to see that a lot of the schools to which I've applied keep this information private, but I'd definitely like to see how their recent alums are faring in the job market before I commit to a school for 3 years. Have any of you folks asked/received that kind of information from schools in the past?

Many thanks!

[Rigo]

This isn't what you're looking for, but I just look at the ABA reports for schools.
I generally add up the 101-250 employees (some people don't include this column), 251-500 ", 500+ ", and Federal Clerkships columns. I then divide that number by the total number of grads.
It's not a perfect measure, but it's the proxy I use for the percentage of graduates who get desirable outcomes with high salaries.

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org

[03152016]

This isn't what you're looking for, but I just look at the ABA reports for schools.
I generally add up the 101-250 employees (some people don't include this column), 251-500 ", 500+ ", and Federal Clerkships columns. I then divide that number by the total number of grads.
It's not a perfect measure, but it's the proxy I use for the percentage of graduates who get desirable outcomes with high salaries.

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=226198

[SBUalex]

Thanks to you both. That seems to be the best way to go about it for the schools who keep the salary portion of their NALP report private. When the information has been available (praises be to LST), I've been surprised to see some of the mean and median salaries at mid-sized firms for some of the regional schools I'm considering (South Carolina and Villanova specifically).

[03152016]

surprised good or surprised bad

[BigZuck]

Thanks to you both. That seems to be the best way to go about it for the schools who keep the salary portion of their NALP report private. When the information has been available (praises be to LST), I've been surprised to see some of the mean and median salaries at mid-sized firms for some of the regional schools I'm considering (South Carolina and Villanova specifically).

Like good surprised or bad surprised?

Eta: lol

[SBUalex]

Like good surprised or bad surprised?

Good surprised. From what I can see, even graduates who end up at mid-sized firms can make enough to at least pay off their loans (provided they can attend at the right price) and living expenses, with a nice chunk left over to put into savings, mortgages, etc. Perhaps that is not the case for the majority of grads, but it's good to see that all hope of living moderately well is not necessarily lost if Big law doesn't come calling.

[Rigo]

And off we go!

[romothesavior]

Like good surprised or bad surprised?

Good surprised. From what I can see, even graduates who end up at mid-sized firms can make enough to at least pay off their loans (provided they can attend at the right price) and living expenses, with a nice chunk left over to put into savings, mortgages, etc. Perhaps that is not the case for the majority of grads, but it's good to see that all hope of living moderately well is not necessarily lost if Big law doesn't come calling.

Villanova placed 25% students into firms of 26+ and federal clerkships. South Carolina is less than 20%. How does that impress you?

Going to either of these schools without ties and a huge scholarship is a terrible idea.

[iamgeorgebush]

Starting salaries in the legal profession are bimodal. Very few graduates make the reported mean or median of the schools you mention. Do not choose a law school based on its mean or median salary, thinking you will probably earn something around that amount. Coming from a school like Villanova, you should instead assume that you will either earn $35k-$70k or nothing at all, with a very small shot at $160k. The $100k (or w/e they're reporting as their mean) jobs just don't exist.

See http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib and http://lstscorereports.com

[SBUalex]

And off we go!

Yup, I opened myself up for that! Fair points on both counts, but let me clarify:

I've been out of school for a few years. I have spent time living in both Philly and SC since then, and I have saved enough to get through at least 1L w/o taking out any loans for my living expenses. Also, I am not considering the idea of enrolling in either of those schools for anything besides a "huge" scholarship. The mean and median starting salaries to which I was referring were like $56 - $61,000. Hypothetically, a salary in that range paired with $30-50,000 of debt nine months after graduation would enable me to comfortably make monthly payments. Also, compare those numbers to my state school--UConn, which is somehow ranked higher than both by many publications--and they actually don't look so bad.

[Clearly]

retake and go to good school. Or drop all notions of biglaw entirely. Also don't email schools and ask for data they deliberately didn't release, especially while you're trying to negotiate "huge money" that's just absurd.

[SBUalex]

retake and go to good school. Or drop all notions of biglaw entirely.

I scored 93rd percentile in the December testing, but I think my UGPA would hold me back from getting into a T14. Even if I did get into a school like Vandy or ND, I can't imagine they'd be throwing much scholarship money at me to attend. So I applied to schools like UGA, WF, ASU and Tulane because they seem to have good reputations, and more likely to give me a favorable scholarship. The employment numbers don't look great at Villanova, but they're actually just about even with Georgia and way better than Arizona State.

[Rigo]

Your list is so scattered. Those are all regional schools in very different regions.
Plus you'll snag ND with an okay scholarship, I'd expect. ND isn't a great school worth overpaying for, but don't sell yourself short.

Shoot WUSTL an app. They may shell out for your 166.

[iamgeorgebush]

Your list is so scattered. Those are all regional schools in very different regions.
Plus you'll snag ND with an okay scholarship, I'd expect. ND isn't a great school worth overpaying for, but don't sell yourself short.

Shoot WUSTL an app. They may shell out for your 166.

What this guy said. Schools like those you mentioned are pretty much pointless unless you want to practice in the regions in which they're located. Don't waste your money on them.

Also, forget about rankings. They are irrelevant. Instead, look at likely employment outcomes. That's a much more useful metric, assuming you're going to law school so you can be employed as a lawyer, than the silly USNWR rankings. When looking at likely employment outcomes, consult http://lstscorereports.com. Do NOT bother with the schools' websites, as their figures can oftentimes be misleading. LST, on the other hand, uses official ABA data in a way that makes sense. I cannot recommend LST highly enough.

Where do you want to practice? CT?

[SBUalex]

Thanks for the advice! I don't really want to practice in CT if I can avoid it.

COL in Connecticut is outrageous. Plus, I grew up here, and went to college near Buffalo, NY...I have no desire to see another frigid, snowy winter, so I'd like to relocate to the Southeastern US.

[romothesavior]

Thanks for the advice! I don't really want to practice in CT if I can avoid it.

COL in Connecticut is outrageous. Plus, I grew up here, and went to college near Buffalo, NY...I have no desire to see another frigid, snowy winter, so I'd like to relocate to the Southeastern US.

If that's your goal, you should go to a strong regional school (see: flagship state schools) for cheap in those states. Villanova wouldn't be a good option for SEC country.

You also might consider moving down there to work for a few years before going to law school. Would help you build some ties for job hunting down the road. And just in general, I think working before law school is TCR.