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UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:06 pm
by flockavelli
I know it's early in the cycle but this has been bothering me.
If I don't get into HYS, I will be in the position of choosing between Columbia and Chicago. Money is not determined yet, so let's assume it's a wash.
Here is the thing, I did undergrad at Chicago, and so am powerfully disinclined to go back.
I have a problem though, the more I read about the two schools the more I am struck that Chicago has become a vastly superior law school. I know biglaw outcomes are similar, but everywhere else it seems Chicago is stronger. To me, it almost seems that they are in a tier by themselves - grouping HYS/C/CN. I would go as far as suggesting that a HY/SC/CN grouping is defensible.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I crazy? I have always wanted to go to Columbia, and I would much strongly prefer to live in New York, but are the schools no longer comparable?
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:06 pm
by 03282016
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:10 pm
by GreenEggs
I'm a 0L so I can't give you advice on prospects after graduation, but unless Chicago offers you vastly stronger chances at getting a specific job you want, then just go back and read your post. You have strong disinterest in going back to Chicago, and you really want to live in NYC. Do you really want to spend the next three years of your life constantly hating your living situation and wishing you had picked the other option, to just get a job that you could've likely gotten out of Columbia anyway?
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:12 pm
by Tiago Splitter
flockavelli wrote:it seems Chicago is stronger. To me, it almost seems that they are in a tier by themselves - grouping HYS/C/CN. I would go as far as suggesting that a HY/SC/CN grouping is defensible.
You'd fit right in at Chicago, although you might want to switch it with Harvard in your rankings above.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:13 pm
by flockavelli
Wahrheit wrote:Why don't you want to go back?
Hyde Park sucks, commuting from Lincoln Park would be just as bad, I want to diversify my alumni network, I want to cultivate some lay prestige, I prefer other cities to Chicago (although to be fair, Chicago's restaurant scene is exceptional).
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:13 pm
by Winston1984
They are definitely peers. Why would Chicago be grouped with Stanford? You seem to want to go to Columbia, and if money is equal, you should go. It's not going to close off options that Chicago would give you.
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:14 pm
by 03282016
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:16 pm
by flockavelli
Winston1984 wrote:They are definitely peers. Why would Chicago be grouped with Stanford? You seem to want to go to Columbia, and if money is equal, you should go. It's not going to close off options that Chicago would give you.
I am going off a sense that academic and clerkship outcomes are stronger from Chicago, and that the academic output of the faculty is more significant than Columbia's.
ETA: and that given that the schools are comparable for all other legal jobs, those relative strengths distinguish it from CN.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:20 pm
by Winston1984
flockavelli wrote:Winston1984 wrote:They are definitely peers. Why would Chicago be grouped with Stanford? You seem to want to go to Columbia, and if money is equal, you should go. It's not going to close off options that Chicago would give you.
I am going off a sense that academic and clerkship outcomes are stronger from Chicago, and that the academic output of the faculty is more significant than Columbia's.
Well, clerkships are stronger at Stanford than Harvard or Chicago. I wouldn't place any real weight on academia. Such an unlikely outcome anyway. It would be similar to choosing which one has had more supreme court clerks.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:27 pm
by flockavelli
Winston1984 wrote:flockavelli wrote:Winston1984 wrote:They are definitely peers. Why would Chicago be grouped with Stanford? You seem to want to go to Columbia, and if money is equal, you should go. It's not going to close off options that Chicago would give you.
I am going off a sense that academic and clerkship outcomes are stronger from Chicago, and that the academic output of the faculty is more significant than Columbia's.
Well, clerkships are stronger at Stanford than Harvard or Chicago. I wouldn't place any real weight on academia. Such an unlikely outcome anyway. It would be similar to choosing which one has had more supreme court clerks.
I don't think the argument for Harvard before Stanford is that hard to make, but I'm not interested in having it. I am just asking if there is anything (other than personal preference) to privileged Columbia over Chicago as a law school? Since there is clearly some reason to prefer Chicago.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:34 pm
by nerd1
I am not a student at CLS. But I don't understand what you mean by UChi being a better law school than CLS.
No way. For NYC biglaw, CLS is probably a bit better than UChi. For clerkships, UChi may be better.
Overall, things balance out so that they are on the same tier. Assuming costs are equal, I would choose between the schools based on goals and geographical preference.
By the way, I would advise against the idea of going to UChi with the aim of becoming a legal scholar. To become a legal scholar, you have to be an academic superstar with exceptional law school academic record. How do you know whether you will be able to pull this off? Also, how do you know whether you will enjoy studying law?
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:36 pm
by Tiago Splitter
nerd1 wrote:
No way. For NYC biglaw, CLS is probably a bit better than UChi.
I'm not sure this is the case. If you can't get a job through OCI it's probably right, but if you have anything close to decent grades at Chicago you're in at least as good a position as you'd be with the same grades at Columbia if you're shooting for NYC.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:37 pm
by victory
What do you want to do with your law degree?
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:42 pm
by Mal Reynolds
Chicago is better in the sense that it might be a little cheaper and that it would give you two potential markets to choose from sort of(?) automatically: Chicago and NYC. Whereas if you didn't have strong ties to Chicago beforehand, I think it's a little tougher going from NYU/Columbia and then to the Chicago market for an SA. I would wager that Chicago students have equal opportunity to snag NYC jobs, possibly slightly lower, relative to their CCN peers. But if you don't like Chicago as a city then all of this is sort of moot.
Also ljl at your tiered rankings.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:45 pm
by utahraptor
This is pointless without having aid packages. Follow the money.
(also, yeah, Chicago is surprisingly rough for many CLS kids)
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:53 pm
by rpupkin
flockavelli wrote:
I have a problem though, the more I read about the two schools the more I am struck that Chicago has become a vastly superior law school. I know biglaw outcomes are similar, but everywhere else it seems Chicago is stronger. To me, it almost seems that they are in a tier by themselves - grouping HYS/C/CN. I would go as far as suggesting that a HY/SC/CN grouping is defensible.
Are you Brian Leiter?
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:54 pm
by Hand
rpupkin wrote:flockavelli wrote:
I have a problem though, the more I read about the two schools the more I am struck that Chicago has become a vastly superior law school. I know biglaw outcomes are similar, but everywhere else it seems Chicago is stronger. To me, it almost seems that they are in a tier by themselves - grouping HYS/C/CN. I would go as far as suggesting that a HY/SC/CN grouping is defensible.
Are you Brian Leiter?
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:31 pm
by Mal Reynolds
flockavelli wrote:I want to cultivate some lay prestige
LOL there are some gems ITT
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:23 pm
by 03282016
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:24 pm
by ballcaps
Mal Reynolds wrote:flockavelli wrote:I want to cultivate some lay prestige
LOL there are some gems ITT
yeah this is really awesome
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:02 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
Pointless question without $$ yet
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:23 pm
by flockavelli
flockavelli wrote: I am just asking if there is anything (other than personal preference) to privileged Columbia over Chicago as a law school? Since there is clearly some reason to prefer Chicago.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:26 pm
by Winston1984
flockavelli wrote:flockavelli wrote: I am just asking if there is anything (other than personal preference) to privileged Columbia over Chicago as a law school? Since there is clearly some reason to prefer Chicago.
And everyone is saying that they are equal. Go to whichever one you want.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:27 pm
by Mal Reynolds
flockavelli wrote:flockavelli wrote: I am just asking if there is anything (other than personal preference) to privileged Columbia over Chicago as a law school? Since there is clearly some reason to prefer Chicago.
Not really when you don't have scholarship info, although preferring NYC to Chicago might be an issue.
Re: UChicago vs. Columbia
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:34 pm
by skers
Just looking at big law hiring I think the NY market may give you better options and may be easier coming from UChicago. I know it sounds like taipeimort trolling to some, but Uchi has shown a pretty consistent ability to land median kids at top NY firms that seems to basically require at least Stone from Columbia. Since NY is a second option for a lot of UChi kids, you get a lot of flexibility that way. Idk the specifics of hiring from Columbia to UChi, but I'd guess it's probably easier to stay in Chicago from UChi as well.