Top Law Schools

.

UIUC

If you're from Kansas, KU was giving out full-rides with those numbers last year. UIUC for $60k total is not a bad deal, and it's better than SMU for $105k.

Apart from Texas, Vandy and probably BU/BC, Illinois is about as good as any non-T14 as far as employment goes. Obviously you should retake and aim higher if you think you can beat that score on a third try but Illinois for $60k total isn't a terrible option by any means.

pamphleteer wrote:Apart from Texas, Vandy and probably BU/BC, Illinois is about as good as any non-T14 as far as employment goes.

Is that statement made based off of the LST employment score (and other stats on that page), or do you have any personal experience or anecdotal evidence? Not questioning you, only curious because I'm considering Illinois as a non-T14 option for the right price so I'm just trying to gather whatever information I can. Thanks!

enkle wrote:

pamphleteer wrote:Apart from Texas, Vandy and probably BU/BC, Illinois is about as good as any non-T14 as far as employment goes.

Is that statement made based off of the LST employment score (and other stats on that page), or do you have any personal experience or anecdotal evidence? Not questioning you, only curious because I'm considering Illinois as a non-T14 option for the right price so I'm just trying to gather whatever information I can. Thanks!

Entirely based on LST. I do know quite a few people who went to Illinois Law and had good outcomes, though that's largely anecdotal.

Why not KU?

Why not retake? What was your score for your first diagnostic?

smu is how much debt? if uiuc is 60k coa and no debt, does that mean smu is 105k coa and 45k debt?
both are fine, imo
but i agree that uiuc is the better choice, that's what i'd do if i were in your shoes (other than retake)
also, as bagel said, send an app to ku

these aren't all the schools you applied to right?

Thanks for the responses. Didn't send an app to KU because I have no desire to stay in Kansas. Would probably have to take out 30-45k for SMU, my parents are willing to cover some but I don't want to make them pay if I can go to UIUC for less. Didn't sign up for Feb LSAT but I may do so.

Okie25 wrote:Thanks for the responses. Didn't send an app to KU because I have no desire to stay in Kansas. Would probably have to take out 30-45k for SMU, my parents are willing to cover some but I don't want to make them pay if I can go to UIUC for less. Didn't sign up for Feb LSAT but I may do so.

Where do you want to end up? I go to UIUC now and if you can graduate debt free it is a great outcome. I got a really good outcome, but I also wanted to be in Chicago. As people mentioned UIUC is one of the best for big law in non-T14, but in my class everyone getting big law is either in Chicago, St. Louis, or Michigan unless they're patent law. If you're cool with Chicago or St. Louis I would definitely recommend it. If not or if big law is priority over low cost, definitely retake.

I'm not sure I like UIUC with zero ties to the state/region. Is Kansas really the only place you have ties with?

Relatedly, would you consider moving somewhere and working for a few years before LS?

Retake is probably the real answer doe.

It would be a decent choice to pick UIUC if you understand the relatively low chance at a "prestigious" job.

Outside of Biglaw, a realistic starting salary for attorneys at law firm or government jobs might fall somewhere between $50-60k, which should be more than attainable with decent grades at UIUC. And with $0 debt, that's far from a "bad" outcome, even if you're living in Chicago.

Yeah like I said I'd take biglaw but it's certainly not what I'm expecting given the low percentage of people getting it out of UIUC, so any actual job requiring a JD is cool. One major concern is what the poster above mentioned, I have no ties to Chicago. Would this be overcome by going to UIUC or would I be at a disadvantage?

I can't say for certain. My strong suspicion is that the speculation regarding the importance to "ties" to a major market like Chicago are going to be based more on preconceptions rather than any actual evidence. Who knows how many firms will be looking to add who knows how many associates by the time you graduate. What we know is that, per UIUC Law's Class of 2013 NALP report, 92 of their grads claim to be employed in Chicago out of a class of 231, and the Class of 2017 is less than 160 people. Keeping a smaller class size appears to be a long term thing for UIUC, as well.

A gamble is a gamble, but if you wanted employment as "an attorney" in Chicago, going to UIUC for free seems to be a perfectly sensible decision, considering your GPA & LSAT.

Then again, by 2019 you might be struggling to get doc review gigs for $25/hour. Nobody here has a crystal ball.

:O)

Wingtip88 wrote:I can't say for certain. My strong suspicion is that the speculation regarding the importance to "ties" to a major market like Chicago are going to be based more on preconceptions rather than any actual evidence. Who knows how many firms will be looking to add who knows how many associates by the time you graduate. What we know is that, per UIUC Law's Class of 2013 NALP report, 92 of their grads claim to be employed in Chicago out of a class of 231, and the Class of 2017 is less than 160 people. Keeping a smaller class size appears to be a long term thing for UIUC, as well.

A gamble is a gamble, but if you wanted employment as "an attorney" in Chicago, going to UIUC for free seems to be a perfectly sensible decision, considering your GPA & LSAT.

Then again, by 2019 you might be struggling to get doc review gigs for $25/hour. Nobody here has a crystal ball.

:O)

I disagree, I think ties clearly matter (How much depends on the market/maybe the job). It's an easy way to differentiate a bunch of fungible people.

BigZuck wrote:I disagree, I think ties clearly matter (How much depends on the market/maybe the job). It's an easy way to differentiate a bunch of fungible people.

I'm not suggesting ties don't matter at all, or that they're not largely important in most markets. Far from it. I'm simply suggesting that if you have zero "ties" to Chicago, but perform well grade-wise at a school such as UIUC, it's a reasonable bet for employment as an attorney in Chicago, and a healthy gamble for $0 debt.

Obviously nobody can predict the future.

Wingtip88 wrote:

BigZuck wrote:I disagree, I think ties clearly matter (How much depends on the market/maybe the job). It's an easy way to differentiate a bunch of fungible people.

I'm not suggesting ties don't matter at all, or that they're not largely important in most markets. Far from it. I'm simply suggesting that if you have zero "ties" to Chicago, but perform well grade-wise at a school such as UIUC, it's a reasonable bet for employment as an attorney in Chicago, and a healthy gamble for $0 debt.

Obviously nobody can predict the future.

Gotcha. I guess I misread your second sentence.

Okie25 wrote:Yeah like I said I'd take biglaw but it's certainly not what I'm expecting given the low percentage of people getting it out of UIUC, so any actual job requiring a JD is cool. One major concern is what the poster above mentioned, I have no ties to Chicago. Would this be overcome by going to UIUC or would I be at a disadvantage?

Chicago does require ties more than NYC, but this can be overcome by just showing that you want to be there. Being from Kansas (midwest generally) and wanting Chicago is probably enough, but definitely doing your 1L summer in Chicago is enough. Plenty of people I know got jobs in Chicago from UIUC that are from all over the country. The times it seems to be an issue is when you're from California or Florida and do your 1L summer back home, then firms in Chicago don't believe you're really interested in being there.

And agree with everyone above. For biglaw you need to be in the top 1/4 at UIUC, but getting a legal job from UIUC is not that hard generally

thebobs1987 wrote:

Okie25 wrote:Yeah like I said I'd take biglaw but it's certainly not what I'm expecting given the low percentage of people getting it out of UIUC, so any actual job requiring a JD is cool. One major concern is what the poster above mentioned, I have no ties to Chicago. Would this be overcome by going to UIUC or would I be at a disadvantage?

Chicago does require ties more than NYC, but this can be overcome by just showing that you want to be there. Being from Kansas (midwest generally) and wanting Chicago is probably enough, but definitely doing your 1L summer in Chicago is enough. Plenty of people I know got jobs in Chicago from UIUC that are from all over the country. The times it seems to be an issue is when you're from California or Florida and do your 1L summer back home, then firms in Chicago don't believe you're really interested in being there.

And agree with everyone above. For biglaw you need to be in the top 1/4 at UIUC, but getting a legal job from UIUC is not that hard generally

I'm also interested in the 'ties' issue. How hard would it be to obtain s.t legal related in Chicago during 1L summer? If one was from outside the US and did a summer outside Chicago, would that be a redflag for firms?

parisian wrote:

thebobs1987 wrote:

Okie25 wrote:Yeah like I said I'd take biglaw but it's certainly not what I'm expecting given the low percentage of people getting it out of UIUC, so any actual job requiring a JD is cool. One major concern is what the poster above mentioned, I have no ties to Chicago. Would this be overcome by going to UIUC or would I be at a disadvantage?

Chicago does require ties more than NYC, but this can be overcome by just showing that you want to be there. Being from Kansas (midwest generally) and wanting Chicago is probably enough, but definitely doing your 1L summer in Chicago is enough. Plenty of people I know got jobs in Chicago from UIUC that are from all over the country. The times it seems to be an issue is when you're from California or Florida and do your 1L summer back home, then firms in Chicago don't believe you're really interested in being there.

And agree with everyone above. For biglaw you need to be in the top 1/4 at UIUC, but getting a legal job from UIUC is not that hard generally

I'm also interested in the 'ties' issue. How hard would it be to obtain s.t legal related in Chicago during 1L summer? If one was from outside the US and did a summer outside Chicago, would that be a redflag for firms?

In terms of obtaining an internship in Chicago during your 1L that is really easy. I can't speak to the issues of being from outside the U.S. though affecting employment. UIUC does have a large contingent in the JD program from Korea and China, but not sure how their job searches are going compared to the rest of the school