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It's big law or bust for me, I am interested in working in tax or finance law.TheSpanishMain wrote:I suppose it depends on how badly you want Big Law. If you're Big Law or bust, then Berkeley. I personally would never take on that debt, but I can't really tell you how much you value Big Law. If you're interested in Big Law but would be okay with some other legal job, then I'd go UCLA for sure.
Yeah sadly I know about Cal's reputation, that's why I am not expecting much. I have blanketed the t14 and my numbers are good enough to get me into most but not get great $ and I do want to stay in CA which make these two my best options.sesto elemento wrote:If you have a full ride at UCLA and are already in at Berkeley then I'm guessing you have numbers that will get you other t-14 acceptances with decent money. Why aren't you considering those other schools? Are you only CA biglaw or bust? FWIW Berkeley is considered one of the more stingier schools.
In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Haven't calculated the exact COA, financing through loans, 3.94/ 170, taken it once.Brut wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:
-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Great numbers.zuko23 wrote:3.94/ 170
+1Brut wrote:dude, you'll have plenty of good offers in the t14
even a crack at stanford
berkeley at sticker would be a poor outcome with your numbers
I agree. Also, retake in the meantimeElston Gunn wrote:Northwestern full ride.
Seriously, wait til you know your options.
Berkeley subtly trolling UVA by leaving them off of their list of peer schools.Dirigo wrote:Great numbers.zuko23 wrote:3.94/ 170
You may want to try this once peer schools offer you money:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6957.htm#OtherSchools
I voted for UCLA here with the assumption that Berkeley would in fact be sticker price. Hopefully you're pleasantly surprised when Berkeley financial aid comes in. I understand the desire to stay in California, but for debt minimization, it may be worth it to leave the state for law school. You should get some pretty decent offers at lower T14.
it's bc uva has the highest median grant amount in the t14thatsnotmyname wrote:Berkeley subtly trolling UVA by leaving them off of their list of peer schools.Dirigo wrote:Great numbers.zuko23 wrote:3.94/ 170
You may want to try this once peer schools offer you money:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6957.htm#OtherSchools
I voted for UCLA here with the assumption that Berkeley would in fact be sticker price. Hopefully you're pleasantly surprised when Berkeley financial aid comes in. I understand the desire to stay in California, but for debt minimization, it may be worth it to leave the state for law school. You should get some pretty decent offers at lower T14.
Do yourself a huge favor and investigate this more fully than just assuming that biglaw "does it." Also, keep in mind that with sticker debt at Berkeley, your take-home will be substantially lower than you're thinking it will be just looking at salary data online.I am interested in working in tax or finance law.
That was true of last year's employment numbers, but they were also marginally better than the worst biglaw employer, Georgetown. Also, Cal is PI heavy so there is some self-selection going on. True, the same can be said about NYU, but I think the difference there is that Berkeley's primary market is CA which is smaller than NY so Boalt grads are competing in a smaller market than NYU peeps. Nevertheless, I think we both agree Berkeley at sticker with a big law or bust mentality is a bad idea.james.bungles wrote:Berkeley is stingy with scholarships and has the second worst biglaw percentage in the T14 IIRC. So neither
What % of Cal students participate in OCI?sesto elemento wrote:That was true of last year's employment numbers, but they were also marginally better than the worst biglaw employer, Georgetown. Also, Cal is PI heavy so there is some self-selection going on. True, the same can be said about NYU, but I think the difference there is that Berkeley's primary market is CA which is smaller than NY so Boalt grads are competing in a smaller market than NYU peeps. Nevertheless, I think we both agree Berkeley at sticker with a big law or bust mentality is a bad idea.james.bungles wrote:Berkeley is stingy with scholarships and has the second worst biglaw percentage in the T14 IIRC. So neither
In 2012, 85% of 2Ls participated in OCI. See slide 4.NYCFAN1 wrote:What % of Cal students participate in OCI?sesto elemento wrote:That was true of last year's employment numbers, but they were also marginally better than the worst biglaw employer, Georgetown. Also, Cal is PI heavy so there is some self-selection going on. True, the same can be said about NYU, but I think the difference there is that Berkeley's primary market is CA which is smaller than NY so Boalt grads are competing in a smaller market than NYU peeps. Nevertheless, I think we both agree Berkeley at sticker with a big law or bust mentality is a bad idea.james.bungles wrote:Berkeley is stingy with scholarships and has the second worst biglaw percentage in the T14 IIRC. So neither
I don't buy Cal being more PI/gov focused than Michigan/Duke/UVA/Georgetown without stats to back it up.
I'm at a similar sub-tier school and we have mid 80s participation, too. It doesn't seem like B students are eschewing firm jobs at a rate greater than my school -- I'd be willing to bet all of MVPBDCNG have similar OCI participation rates, too.sesto elemento wrote:In 2012, 85% of 2Ls participated in OCI. See slide 4.NYCFAN1 wrote:What % of Cal students participate in OCI?sesto elemento wrote:That was true of last year's employment numbers, but they were also marginally better than the worst biglaw employer, Georgetown. Also, Cal is PI heavy so there is some self-selection going on. True, the same can be said about NYU, but I think the difference there is that Berkeley's primary market is CA which is smaller than NY so Boalt grads are competing in a smaller market than NYU peeps. Nevertheless, I think we both agree Berkeley at sticker with a big law or bust mentality is a bad idea.james.bungles wrote:Berkeley is stingy with scholarships and has the second worst biglaw percentage in the T14 IIRC. So neither
I don't buy Cal being more PI/gov focused than Michigan/Duke/UVA/Georgetown without stats to back it up.
However, you also need to know the number of 2Ls that participated in OCI at other schools to make a meaningful comparison. Another alternative is to look at the percent of students who anticipated to work in PI v. the actual numbers. You can look at ATL anticipated v. actual student career plan charts for that. ex, UVA, NYU, Berkeley
Yeah, I wonder what the participation rates are at other schools as well.NYCFAN1 wrote: I'm at a similar sub-tier school and we have mid 80s participation, too. It doesn't seem like B students are eschewing firm jobs at a rate greater than my school -- I'd be willing to bet all of MVPBDCNG have similar OCI participation rates, too.
True, but look at the firm category for a school like NYU, 88% of entering 1Ls anticipate working in firms (84% at UVA), by contrast, only 76% of Berkeley 1Ls anticipate that outcome. To me that suggests that fewer Berkeley 1Ls anticipate working in biglaw and instead want to do PI or gov. However, I agree that the ATL survey doesn't mean much w/o knowing what percentage of the total 1L class was surveyed and even then there may be some other problems with it.NYCFAN1 wrote: That ATL survey doesn't mean much. It could be an indication that students are truly committed to PI when starting, or it could mean that students are naive about what PI law actually entails when they start law school.