Top Law Schools

Just Curious. I know Vanderbilt has a very excellent undergrad program, but where does it law school rank? Would i be right to assume Top 20?

Ah, I was right...almost exactly where there Undergrad is. Thank You very much

google has been around for quite some time

Don't put too much stock into rankings.
It all comes down to your career goals, locational preferences, and cost of attendance.
For instance, if you want biglaw (think Suits, The Good Wife, lawyers who are high paid), Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you don't get a substantial scholarship, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you are targeting the Los Angeles legal market, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.

Dirigo wrote:Don't put too much stock into rankings.
It all comes down to your career goals, locational preferences, and cost of attendance.
For instance, if you want biglaw (think Suits, The Good Wife, lawyers who are high paid), Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you don't get a substantial scholarship, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you are targeting the Los Angeles legal market, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.

Why is Vandy not a good choice for biglaw? Last year it placed 46 % into biglaw and fed clerkships. I believe georgetown the exact same. At what point do school become attractive choices for biglaw? 50% placement and up?

alaird21 wrote:

Dirigo wrote:Don't put too much stock into rankings.
It all comes down to your career goals, locational preferences, and cost of attendance.
For instance, if you want biglaw (think Suits, The Good Wife, lawyers who are high paid), Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you don't get a substantial scholarship, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you are targeting the Los Angeles legal market, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.

Why is Vandy not a good choice for biglaw? Last year it placed 46 % into biglaw and fed clerkships. I believe georgetown the exact same. At what point do school become attractive choices for biglaw? 50% placement and up?

The 45.1% stat (which I'm assuming you meant) is a liberal view of what is considered biglaw. Some people include firms with 101-250 lawyers as biglaw, while others do not.
36.9% is the stat that limits biglaw to firms with 251+ employees.

Either way you slice it, any school with less than 50% in biglaw means biglaw is not ikely.
The schools where biglaw can be deemed "likely" are Yale thru Cornell because at least 50% of graduates go into biglaw or A3 clerkships.

This is speculation but I think georgetown's placement is slightly better than the stats show due to self selection. I wonder how many of those grads wanted PI or gov't work. Seems like it would be a considerable amount due to its location. Sorry for the hijack, this is my last statement.

alaird21 wrote:This is speculation but I think georgetown's placement is slightly better than the stats show due to self selection. I wonder how many of those grads wanted PI or gov't work. Seems like it would be a considerable amount due to its location. Sorry for the hijack, this is my last statement.

Yeah but the thing is that speculation cannot be quantified and it's hard to rationalize a decision to attend--hoping for biglaw--based on mere speculation, especially when someone with a high 160's LSAT score would likely have better options for that goal. It'd be foolish to choose Georgetown over Cornell if you want biglaw because the employment numbers don't justify that decision.

Yale's BL+FC rate is 70%. That is lower than many of it's peer schools. Is it safe to say that number is lower because of self selection? Probably.
Georgetown has a massive class size in a very tough home market. Is there some self selection? Sure, but there is self selection at every school. One should be careful not to speculate too much, however. Did every graduate who went the public interest/government route at Georgetown turn down a Fed Clerk and/or Biglaw offer? Not likely.

Georgetown aside, it would not be a safe assumption that Vanderbilt's BL+FC percentage is low due to a significant number of graduates self-opting out of that path.

Vandy guy here.

To be fair many firms in the 101-250 range are harder to get than larger firms. A lot of Vandy grads end up in southern markets which have fewer SA slots than big firms in NYC, DC, etc. The easiest jobs to get are NYC firms with large class sizes. For example, I wanted Nashville and couldn't land an offer here, but I was able to get multiple offers at 501+ lawyer firms. Anyone who ends up at Bass Berry & Sims, which is <250, probably could have gone to a V10 in NYC. Not all the smaller firms are that selective, but many are.

I do agree with the larger point that if biglaw anywhere is your end goal, there are better schools to go to. With scholarships Vandy will be cheaper than a T14 would and that savings is sometimes worth the risk of a lower chance of biglaw. I think most of my classmates knew the risk they were taking when they came here over a T14. It's paid off for a lot of us, but I know that a good number will end up with bad outcomes as well.

I think Vandy opens up the firms in the smaller markets like Birmingham, Memphis, Nash, and Jackson, MS. They aren't traditional big law like NYC as in some of these even handle divorces (obviously not a big part of their practice but still). But, I believe most pay 110kish and the hours are better.

Like Ark said, though, those markets are really small so they don't hire many associates.

All decent points that can be debated.
I just wanted to let OP know that decisions shouldn't be made strictly on rankings, since someone who didn't even know the USWNR rankings existed is very likely to give them too much credence.

where is nearest gas station

chimp wrote:where is nearest gas station

lol I see what you did there

Post removed.

schmelling wrote:Rigo, I have to disagree for a lot of the reasons already stated. If you want biglaw and are more debt-averse than you are risk-averse, vandy with a scholarship can be a sound decision. But as is the case wuth any law school, prospective students should know their odds of desired outcomes going in.

Thats fine, but you're qualifying the statement I made. I was not discussing debt aversion. Some people may be willing to sacrifice a greater chance at a desirable outcome in order to save money. Others may take on more debt for a greater chance at a desirable outcome.

I said that anything with less than a 50% chance of happening cannot be deemed probable.
So if someone is biglaw or bust and biglaw was their number one priority, Vanderbilt would not be the best choice.

alaird21 wrote:This is speculation but I think georgetown's placement is slightly better than the stats show due to self selection.

0/10

james.bungles wrote:

alaird21 wrote:This is speculation but I think georgetown's placement is slightly better than the stats show due to self selection.

0/10

Keyword: slightly

so you honestly think the 20% of grads that went to work in gov't did so bc they couldn't get biglaw?
the lrap program might also explain why many went that route, if a grad makes less than 75k, their loans get paid off.

disclosure to op: if you want biglaw, don't go to georgetown if you can get into better schools.

OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.

If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

dabigchina wrote:OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.

If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

he didn't list any ties and he didn't say he had $$ you idiot

Brut wrote:

dabigchina wrote:OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.
If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

he didn't list any ties and he didn't say he had $$ you idiot

Doesn't sound like OP has ties to the south at all.

CardinalAmbition wrote:During my Undergraduate career I transferred from Rutgers University to University of Miami.

Brut wrote:

dabigchina wrote:OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.

If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

he didn't list any ties and he didn't say he had $$ you idiot

Aw shit 10/10 post. Have fun editing ttt law school wikipedias.

Dirigo wrote:

Brut wrote:

dabigchina wrote:OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.
If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

he didn't list any ties and he didn't say he had $$ you idiot

Doesn't sound like OP has ties to the south at all.

CardinalAmbition wrote:During my Undergraduate career I transferred from Rutgers University to University of Miami.

Fair enough. Didn't look that hard into ops background.

dabigchina wrote:

Brut wrote:

dabigchina wrote:OP: do you have ties to the south? Vandy with $$ and ties to the south is a great outcome in my book, regardless of what LST circlejerkers say.

If you are from the NE, MW, or W however, I would look elsewhere.

he didn't list any ties and he didn't say he had $$ you idiot

Aw shit 10/10 post. Have fun editing ttt law school wikipedias.

lol

is that what you call wikipedia articles?

"wikipedias"?

no i was totally wrong you're not retarded at all

CardinalAmbition wrote:Just Curious. I know Vanderbilt has a very excellent undergrad program, but where does it law school rank? Would i be right to assume Top 20?

"Rank" in what sense? The consensus view seems to be "just outside the T14." However, tread lightly with "rankings." Commercial magazine surveys often don't reflect true quality or actual employment numbers. Individuals ranking things and the metrics they choose for the appearance of quantitative rigor produce inherently subjective lists. Consider the following.

Elite Outcomes. Vanderbilt: 15.

US News. Vanderbilt: 16

Business Insider. Vanderbilt: 15.

For the lolz and the true depth of a university ranking, check out Cooley too.

Dirigo wrote:

alaird21 wrote:

Dirigo wrote:Don't put too much stock into rankings.
It all comes down to your career goals, locational preferences, and cost of attendance.
For instance, if you want biglaw (think Suits, The Good Wife, lawyers who are high paid), Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you don't get a substantial scholarship, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.
If you are targeting the Los Angeles legal market, Vanderbilt is not a smart choice.

Why is Vandy not a good choice for biglaw? Last year it placed 46 % into biglaw and fed clerkships. I believe georgetown the exact same. At what point do school become attractive choices for biglaw? 50% placement and up?

The 45.1% stat (which I'm assuming you meant) is a liberal view of what is considered biglaw. Some people include firms with 101-250 lawyers as biglaw, while others do not.
36.9% is the stat that limits biglaw to firms with 251+ employees.

Either way you slice it, any school with less than 50% in biglaw means biglaw is not ikely.
The schools where biglaw can be deemed "likely" are Yale thru Cornell because at least 50% of graduates go into biglaw or A3 clerkships.

who the fuck are you? A firm with 101-250 is going to pay damn well.